Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
Please note that the guidelines for this discussion are published here.
@mike- that is correct. Because you were born to at least one parent who was a Canadian citizen that you are a citizen of Canada from the time of your birth.
thanks alot for the clarification, i really appreciate all the help. Does helps address any exit tax, is there still an estate tax if the value of assets are above a certain threshold when renouncing?
@mike- you are free, free. No taxes now or in the future.
Even a person who isn’t a dual citizen does not have to face estate taxes once he/she has renounced or relinquished. You settle up with the IRS which ever way you have too and that is it.
thank you! I have learned more on this site in one day than in the last six months. Keep up the great site, I can assure you it will help thousands of people who are lost like me.
on form 8854, do you still need to fill in the five years of tax data and net worth, even if you are exempt (Part IV section a)? just curious, thanks you.
@mike- Because of your dual nationality from birth you are excluded from the exit tax but not from current and past filing compliance requirements.. You do not have to do the net worth section because you will certify that you were born a citizen of both countries and that you will be taxed as a Canadian once you have renounced.
@mike
Citizenship in Canadian laws has changed a lot over the years so personally, I would get confirmation of your status from CIC. It’s good that it was your father that is Canadian. Years ago, it seemed that the citizenship of the father/husband affected citizenship of children and wives. I remember when I applied to Canada, there were many questions about my father’s citizenship and I had to provide his birth certificate and some sort of written statement from him. My mom was also Canadian but there wasn’t anything asked about her.
The provisions of 877 that you provided are concerning and don’t seem to be what is described in the instructions for 8854. Given that you’ve been through OVDI and you have a lot at stake with your work and net worth, I would want professional clarification before filing 8854. It’s not clear to me from the instructions on 8854 that you would be exempt from providing the information regarding net worth, even if you would be considered exempt from paying it. Also with net worth for the exit tax, I believe that if you own assets jointly, you only include your half.
IAmQuincy, Why are you confusing him? HE IS EXEMPT! Having filed 5 years he renounces, and is exempt from the exit tax and is free forever. read the form. don’t make it worse than he is. Mike doesn’t need an expensive lawyer.
thanks everyone, I will read through everything once over again and get whatever docs I can from Canada showing that I am a canadian citizen from birth. From what I have read on the govt canada website that because i was first generation and my father was a canadian citizen at the time of my birth, I am a canadian citizen from birth. Just annoying that form 8854 requires you to still list net worth and then check off I am exempt (5 year tax and net worth boxes are before the check off of exemption.)
Mike At least you are exempt and don’t have to fill in section B
true.
I contacted the US embassy to arrange a renunciation appointment over 5 weeks ago and their response, while fast, was to give them my number and wait for them to call me with a proposed date, probably in May or June. I still haven’t heard a word from them and am getting increasingly annoyed that I don’t have a date set. Has anyone successfully renounced at an Embassy in a different country than where they are resident? I want to get it over with as quickly as possible 🙂
I submitted a question similar to this earlier with a few details that were missing. So here I go again.
I became a Canadian Citizen prior to 1995 with the intent of relinquishing my American citizenship. However, about ten years ago I filed an American return due to taxes owed on an estate. It was not my intention to reinstate American citizenship but to settle the estate.
Will I now have to go through a renunciation process because of filing for this reason?
@ Hippocampe
Dunno. It sounds to me like you are a Canadian not an American. Lots of people file US taxes who are not citizens. I’ve heard it is on the basis of a “preponderance of evidence” whether your intention was to keep your US citizenship. Did you travel on a US passport, vote in US elections, regularly file your US taxes? Did you continue residence in the United States? Did you take a job in the United States? The filing of single return for the reasons you state do not constitute a preponderance of evidence.
But then I’m not a state department official with arbitrary powers over people’s citizenship.
I have done none of the above acts relating to keeping a US citizenship. I realize that filing a single return in this situation does not sound like a preponderance of evidence but, I have fears that the United States will be unreasonable.
Any advice will be helpful. Thanks.
@ Hippocampe: well, insist on your right to expatriate. You have an unalienable right to expatriate in the United States law and international law. What matters is your rights, not what government can do to you. Other than that, I have no advice, because we are all victims of rogue government.
Hopefully, I have enough documentation and evidence to take to the US Consulate to begin the process of relinquishing US citizenship. I obtained a laminated Certificate of Canadian Citizenship card in the early 90’s. I have paperwork showing my appointment to register for Canadian citzenship and to appear to take the oath of citizenship where I swear to be faithful to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth. I also have a dated Commemoration of Canadian Citizenship paper with the document number. I have in my records a video taking my oath of citizenship.
Would the video be helpful and this enough documentation to proceed to the next step?
@hippocampe- what they ask for a want is the paper that shows the date when you became a Canadian citizen. When I went for my appointment though the only item that they took to use as evidence of my Canadian citizenship was my Canadian passport. I had the citizenship paper but they never even looked at it.
If I were you I would fill out the paperwork for renunciation and relinquishment. At the appointment I would first try to go the relinquishment route and if they were to tell you that you couldn’t relinquish because of that one tax filing then you can at least renounce.
If one appointment only is needed than having both routnes ready to proceed with will save you from having to make another trip. Although they should be able to easily prepare the renounciation papers for you right on the spot.
The video won’t make any difference because what serves as the only legal proof of your Canadian citizenship is that document of citizenship with the number.
Estate Tax Reform Provides New Opportunities for Expatriation Tax Savings:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/nestmann/nestmann18.1.html
If I relinquish my American citizenship and obtain my CLN, do I need to file an 8854 even though I never worked?
Do I make my appointment online and if so what website should I use?
@hippocampe- Yes, you do. The 8854 is a form on which you disclose to the IRS the value of your global financial and real assets such as property. The issue is not whether or not you worked but one of what it is that you own.
You make your appointment on the website of whichever consulate or embassy that you plan on going to.
@hippocampe- I forgot to mention that form 8854 is also a statement that you have been in compliance with all of your filing obligations for the five years preceding your expatriation. You will also be entering in the amount of tax that you owed for each of those five years. You will also have to file taxes for the year of your expatriation but only for up to the day preceding your act relinquishment or renunciation. This will give you a total of six calendar years of tax filings.
You will then sign the form where it states that you are in compliance.
The form 8854 does not apply to those who relinquished US citizenship before the passage of the Reed Amendment. I would not file 8854, if you can show that you validly did relinquished before February 1995: http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2011/12/16/did-you-relinquish-before-february-6-1995-then-you-did-not-have-to-inform-the-state-department/
See also: http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2011/12/19/forget-about-form-8854-filing-last-5-years-of-tax-etc-usa-law-establishes-a-right-to-unilateral-expatriation/
What is considered concrete proof to show that I validly reliquished before February 1995? My information is provided above in an April 12th comment. Can the backdated date of relinquishment be challenged? The process of reliquishing citizenship requires a large leap of faith.
@Hippocampe: When you go to the embassy or consulate to relinquish you will fill out form ds-4079 which will indicate to them when you performed the expatriating act. They will then take an unnecessary amount of time determining if they agree with you. If they do agree then you get the CLN. If the expatriating act was before 1995 then you are home free – or that’s what those of us who are going this route are hoping.