Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

The Isaac Brock Society

1,012 thoughts on “FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part One”

  1. I try to read all of our extraordinary Brocker’s comments too and they pop up in an amazing number of places. And don’t forget calgary411 who held her own quite nicely recently on the Huff Po article. (I think she must have been getting some kind of adrenalin rush associated with her renouncement day.) A “monologue” would take me days to assemble so I am always impressed
    and appreciative of Just Me’s seemingly effortless contributions which
    appear everywhere and darn near simultaneously. (My theory is “cloning”
    but I can’t prove it — yet.) We are just so fortunate to have all of these Brockers working so hard at their keyboards to help get the FATCA fiasco message out there. (I dare not start listing the names because I would dearly hate to omit someone.) I only hope they can pace themselves and avoid a burn out because this is a long struggle and we need them right to the end.

  2. *@Em, I truly am proud and supportive of all the hard work of all the Brockers… I just am grateful that people here are willing to voice their opinions as a matter of principle. 🙂

  3. @monalissa1776,

    I guess I have lost some of my fear, over time.  No one here is calling for violent over throw of the government, or anything radical. If it was, I would not be here. That is why I push back against too inflamed rhetoric, as it does marginalize us as extreme, but then, some will always see Expat actions as somehow extreme anti patriotic move.  

    Anger at US stupidity is natural, but reasoned discussion and education outreach beyond these web pages without too my hyperbole serves us well, and frankly leaves me confident that we won’t just become an echo chamber of hate or targeted by some like the FATCANTICs, who IMHO, are the extreme view.  

    Just remember, we are just engaging in principled resistance and complaints to stupid tax policy, or exercising rights to renounce one citizenship and that should not cause fear.  As I have said many times, I am CCW, Comply, Complain and Warn, so being compliant does not make me a model of any grand principle!  🙂  

  6. It has been probably been posted somewhere already, and I have not kept up with all the reading, but this from the Center for Freedom and Prosperity blog…

    Author: Andrew QuinlanNovember 16, 2012

    Can Treasury Con 50 Countries Into Relinquishing Their Fiscal Sovereignty?

    Treasury’s list of suckers is longer than one might have imagined. They are promising foreign politicians “reciprocal” information, in hopes that the prospect of finding new potential taxpayers to fleece will convince them to relinquish their fiscal sovereignty to the IRS.

    This news is troubling for several reasons. For one, it is shocking the degree to which Treasury is willing to make up law to expand its reach. The Department should not be promising to saddle American banks with the burdens of reciprocation. FATCA, for even as poorly as it was conceived and written, contained no such promises. Is Treasury accountable to anyone at all? Is Congress capable of doing its job of oversight?

    Also concerning is the degree to which foreign governments seem to be biting at Treasury’s bait, ushering us every closer to a FATCA reality of global information sharing (even with corrupt and venal governments) that excites only spendthrift politicians and the compliance industry, but will unquestionably be bad news for taxpayers and the global economy.

  9. “FATCA is a United States law aimed largely at collecting revenue from Americans living overseas.

    The theory is, you catch a suspect by his monetary assets, without
    regard to any consideration of his legitimate earnings, trade or
    business    . All these acts in my estimation have the same direction, and
    they are all intended to confiscate assets without going through the
    courts    .

    When I was first introduced to them, I thought they were intended for
    terrorists, gun runners, drug traffickers and human Traffickers, all
    serious crimes of criminal intent. I never imagined that the intention
    of these acts would be the collection of additional revenue,
    irrespective of any revenue laws    .

    These new offences caused outrage in much of the professional
    community, with solicitors arguing that the act would force them to
    breach professional privilege and act against the interests of their own
    clients.

    Some claimed the act was so broadly drafted that professionals,
    fearful of prosecution, would send law agencies a flow of useless
    reports relating to trivial breaches of the law”……http://www.caribjournal.com/2012/11/17/op-ed-iniquitous-legislation-in-jamaica/

    Exactly @ShadowRaider, and the egregious nature of it is stunning.

    The architect of FATCA, Richard Harvey (a friend and advisor of the IRS Commissioner Shulman) has written:….”it may be easier politically to justify detailed customer due diligence if it is being done for a joint purpose (that is, both tax reasons and anti-terrorist-financing/money-laundering reasons).”  http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/features.nsf/Articles/7FE9806866554F5985257A5500712E6D?OpenDocument

    And what he is really saying is – it is politically expedient, and the public will ignore what is being done to those abroad as long as you make sure to call them criminals of the worst sort, rather than being honest that you’re attempting to rummage through and seize the legal post-tax assets of people who don’t even live in the US, in order to feed the US deficit and give US residents continued tax breaks.

  12. Thanks, badger. It is fairly evident (to me) that Version 2 of the IGA http://www.investmenteurope.net/investment-europe/news/2225412/us-treasury-releases-second-model-fatca-iga?WT.rss_f=&WT.rss_a=US+Treasury+releases+second+model+Fatca+IGA#comments results from Dick Harvey’s “analysis” of the debate in Switzerland http://www.taxanalysts.com/www/features.nsf/Articles/7FE9806866554F5985257A5500712E6D?OpenDocument.   I thought I should revist that, posted earlier by Just Me:

     

    Just Me

    September 8, 2012 at 1:45 am(Edit)

    Finally…

    The video of this debate has been posted to YouTube…

    Here it is…

    FATCA – The worldwide end of Bank Secrecy?


    !

    There is also a link at ACA here.

  13. @calgary411

    Thanks for the link to the video on the debate.  I had also posted it on the discussion thread, back in September, but it is good to have it here.

    I keep thinking, and then never do anything about it, that we need a video resources link, where all these good videos, like this one could be collected in one place.  Sometimes remembering where you saw them stretches the capabilities of my aging brain!  🙂

    @bubblebustin  and thnx for searching out that email.  I think that gentlemen deserves a message from me!  LOL

  15. *A question concerning the FATCA Model 2 agreement that was published Nov. 14, 2012:

    http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/treaties/Documents/FATCA-Model-2-Agreement-to-Implement-11-14-2012.pdf

    Am I reading Article 3, Paragraph 3 (below) correct, that RRSPs would not be subject to FATCA reporting by financial institutions?

    3. Specific Treatment of [FATCA Partner] Retirement Plans. The United States will treat as exempt beneficial owners, deemed-compliant FFIs, or exempt products for purposes of Section 1471 of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code retirement plans established in and regulated by or located in [FATCA Partner] and identified in Annex II. For this purpose, a retirement plan includes an entity established in or located in, and regulated by, [FATCA Partner], or a predetermined contractual or legal arrangement operated to provide pension or retirement benefits or earn income for providing such benefits under the laws of [FATCA Partner] and regulated with respect to contributions, distributions, reporting, sponsorship, and taxation.

  18. @bubblebustin – interesting find. Amazing what is out there.

    I am always surprised at the amount of details we’ve managed to glean and pull together here.

  21. Cross posted from here. 

    Mexico and Spain sign IGAs

    It appears both Spain and Mexico signed IGAs overnight. No sign of the actual documents yet. May not see the actual IGA until next week. 
    You can find details here: 

    For Spain: 
    Web Announcement 
    http://www.minhap.gob.es/en-gb/prensa/en%20portada/2012/Paginas/20121120_Ferre.aspx 

    Spanish press release (in Spanish) 
    http://www.minhap.gob.es/Documentacion/Publico/GabineteMinistro/Notas%20Prensa/2012/SE%20HACIENDA/20-11-12%20NP%20Fiscalidad%20Internacional.pdf 

    And for Mexico: 
    Here is the press release of the Mexican Finance Ministry (in Spanish)http://www.shcp.gob.mx/documentos_recientes_bliblioteca/comunicado_070_2012.pdf

     
    Here is a news article in English 
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/21/mexico-united-states-taxes-idUSL1E8ML0DN20121121 

    Here is a news article in Spanish 
    http://eleconomista.com.mx/sistema-financiero/2012/11/20/mexico-eu-firman-acuerdo-contra-evasion-fiscal

  22. And what I have feared most out of FATCA to GATCA evolution.   Here come the copy cats. 

    Exclusive: UK to impose son of FATCA on Crown Dependencies, despite government’s denials 

    A leaked government document seen by International Tax Review reveals that the UK is planning to impose its own version of the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) on its Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories.  The move will deal an almost fatal blow to tax evasion through the UK’s Tax havens. 

  23. Cross reference from “Where were the Journalist” thread. 

    I just came across the most comprehensive list of comment letters on FATCA I have found.  It is here.  I am sure there are other lists, but this is a handy one.  When you look at the magnitude of the comments, you have to wonder, why is their just one of these institutions willing to step to the plate and fund a repeal or modification process.  

  24. Running Comparison of Annex II of the Signed IGAs

    Each IGA will include lists of specified non-reporting institutions and products, and each will contain similar but possibly different requirements for local financial institutions to meet in order to qualify as deemed-compliant financial institutions. This is but one subset of the IGAs which will require country-specific approaches to compliance.

    I. Exempt Beneficial Owners

    These institutions are Non-Reporting [FATCA Partner] Financial Institutions that are treated as exempt beneficial owners for purposes of section 1471 of the U.S. Internal Revenue Code.

  25. Treasury to crack down on UK’s offshore tax havens

    “It’s a complete bombshell for these places,” Richard Murphy, a tax expert who has seen the draft plan, told the Observer. “Some people will try to flee, but this is going to change the whole of the offshore market.”

    He explained that the draft plan amounted to the UK using US legislation to give tax havens an ultimatum: “It’s either they give the UK the same data that they want to give the US or the UK won’t pass their laws to let data flow to the US.”

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