The Isaac Brock Society consists of individuals who are concerned about the treatment by the United States government of US persons who live in Canada and abroad.
If clicking on a link brings you to the wrong page in the comment thread, click here to arrive on the current page of the thread: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2011/12/14/about-the-isaac-brock-society/
The United States is one of two countries in the world that taxes its people no matter where in the world they may reside. The other is Eritrea, which the USA has condemened for terrorism and for its diaspora tax. The majority of US persons who live abroad are not aware of their filing requirements. But recently, the US government has decided to crack down on those who are not in compliance.
But what is more, the US government has begun, since about 2004, to apply with great pressure a long-neglected requirement of 35-year old law called the Bank Secrecy Act. That requirement is FBAR, the foreign bank account report, which the United States government expects annually from those who have accounts outside of the United States which exceed $10,000 in aggregate. The fines for failure to file this form are extortionate, and virtually no US person who lives abroad even knew about FBAR, while most of them, over a certain age, own bank accounts with retirement savings exceeding that amount. The threats of fines and imprisonment has frightened many people who as a result have consulted expensive accountants and tax lawyers to get this mess sorted out, only to face high accounting or legal fees on top of potential fines and back taxes. In 2009 and 2011, the IRS offered voluntary disclosure programs (OVDI). Some who entered into the 2009 OVDI, because of fear of the penatlies, were shocked when the IRS assessed them fines in the tens of thousands, essentially treating them as tax evaders instead of a law abiding citizens in their countries of residence.
For many US expats, renunciation now seems like a really good idea. Why not? Many haven’t lived in the US for years and now they have few ties there except perhaps some family members. So they want to renounce their citizenship only to find that the laws regarding expatriation are confusing and that the exit tax requirements are at best complicated and invasive, and at worst, extortionate and utterly in violation of their right to expatriate.
The media coverage of this issue has been uneven. There have a been a few balanced stories, but most of the time, the media has merely publicized the purposes of the US government; this is especially true of US media sources. The Canadian media has generally done a much better job of grabbing the attention of the world about the abuses of the US government. That being said, even the Canadian media sometimes falls into the IRS trap of projecting fear in order to force compliance. Overall, we regret when the media offers only condemnation and fear without telling the story from the side of the victims or informing them of their rights and alternatives.
US persons abroad also face US border guards who are starting to put pressure on all those who have a US place of birth to travel only on a US passport, even if the person has not been a US person for decades–an arbitrary change of policy making those who relinquished citizenship into would-be loyal taxpayers to a profligate government that has to borrow 40 cents on every dollar its spends.
The Isaac Brock Society is here to fight. Sir Isaac Brock prepared Canadians for war with the United States and gave his life in repelling a US invasion in 1812. So we also want to fight for US persons who are frightened by the IRS, the border guards, the compliance condors, and the media. We are here to provide one another with resources and strategies, comfort and advice.
But not only so, we are here to warn other Canadians about the illegal incursion of the US federal government into the lives of the US expat community. Pretty soon, with the new FATCA legislation, this arrogant attitude of the United States will affect every man, woman and child on the planet who wants to open or maintain a bank account or to invest in a retirement fund. Now, according to FATCA, you will have to tell the United States whether you are a US person when you open up a bank account in, e.g., Australia or Thailand. This makes every country in the world a protectorate of the United States, for, if they comply with FATCA, they are ceding their very sovereignty to a nation which has not invaded or conquered the rest of the world, but only uses its waning hegemony over the financial sphere to coerce other nations.
So whether you are a US person living in exile, a Canadian or a citizen of any other country, we ask you to join us in this struggle for freedom and justice.
@ProudAussi
The mayor’s silence could be construed one of two ways – he either got a deal that would embarrass the IRS, or, he doesn’t want to poison the well should he choose to renounce.
@PortlandPCL
I don’t believe that the IRS determined that Boris owed them tax. I believe that Boris looked at his tax situation and determined that he owed the IRS tax.
@Bubblebustin
I am of the same opinion that Boris probably just looked at his situation and determined that the U.S. would like a piece of his profit, rather than being notified of the fact. I haven’t heard yet of very many people actually getting assessment notices except the ones who virtually turned themselves in, in an attempt to become compliant or renounce citizenship. I’m sure they’ll get around to it, but it doesn’t seem all that common so far.
New statue of Isaac Brock installed this week at Brock University.
Artist is Canadian; statue made in U.S.A.
http://www.stcatharinesstandard.ca/2015/03/16/bronze-brock-statue-comes-home
http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2015/03/15/brock-statue-embraces-mythology
http://bulletnewsniagara.ca/index.php?p=Sections&id=4006
Admins. Is there any way ‘ media and blog articles open to comments’ can be given it’s own link on the right? Using a tablet requires scrolling through about 20 pages to get to the end.
@ Duke — you don’t have to scroll through all the pages.
Someone (Just Me?) provided a good tip awhile back that has really helped: Click on the URL window at the top of the screen. Put the cursor at the far right end and back it up to delete everything back to the foreword slash (/) at the end of the thread title. Then click enter or return and you’ll land on the latest page of comments.
Maybe someone can more clearly state these directions, but this tip has been so helpful it should be highlighted somewhere.
Or just click on the number of comments highlighted in blue and listed at the top of the page , under the title, to get to the latest page.
Or if no number is listed,then click on ‘media and blog’ listed on the right under ‘take action’ heading’ and it will take you to the latest comments
FINALLY. Thank you Heidi! The trick with the URL works fine on a desktop but not on an I Pad. Who knew the link to the last comment was hidden under ‘take action’? Now I know. Thanks again.
@ Duke — I use the URL trick on my iPad. For the Media and Blogs etc. thread, where the title is so long, I turn the IPad sideways, landscape view, to do it. Handy to have the “take action” link; thanks, Heidi.
@ Canoe, Heidi and Duke of Devon,
Good tips, thanks! It seems that the threads with many pages of comments are where we run into problems with the links going to the wrong page. Reading your comments here, I realised that the comment stream for the Media and Blog Articles thread is now 150 pages! I’ll make a new thread for Media and Blog Articles tomorrow, with a link to the original thread for reference purposes, and close the original thread. I’ll also see about gathering navigation tips into one place that’s easily accessible.
I am having difficulty arranging a meeting with a consular officer in Toronto, Canada. When I try to arrange an appointment electronically to relinquish my US citizenship, I am provided with paperwork for renunciation that must be filled out prior to having a consular meeting. Does anyone have a quicker way of setting up a meeting with a consular officer without having first to fill out irrelevant paperwork? Thanks
@Greg, no. For them it’s not irrelevant paperwork and they use the same stuff for both relinquishments and renunciations. I assume you mean the DS-4079 form which actually is very relevant for relinquishments as the consular staff use it to determine whether or not you have actually relinquished your citizenship. You must e-mail them, not use the appointment system.
“Please send an e-mail to Torontopassport@state.gov for information and procedures on how to renounce or relinquish citizenship.”
Until you provide them with the paperwork they will not make an appointment for you so knuckle down and get it done as there’s a several months’ waiting time to get one anyway. See page 71 of the Consular Report Directory.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Consulate-Report-Directory-2015.05.h.pdf
Thank you. As I started filling out the information, I realized that the paperwork was, as you said, very relevant (and not as onerous as I had anticipated). As I go through the process, I’m sure I will have a few more questions to post. Thanks again for getting back to me; I really appreciate any information that will facilitate what I assume will be a long, tedious and unenjoyable experience. Greg
@Greg, you’re welcome. Remember that the form is really designed to determine whether someone accidently relinquished when they didn’t mean to so the more “no” answers you can put to the various questions only confirms that you did relinquish your citizenship by whatever act and that you meant to do it.
Hopefully, while it may be long, it shouldn’t be too onerous a experience. Have a read through the various reports of people who’ve already renounced/relinquished at Toronto so you get a feeling for what it’s like and also what to expect. Once you’ve had your interview and assuming the embassy accepts your relinquishment then it’s just a matter of waiting for the State Department in Washington to issue the final approval and your CLN.
You can also keep track of what others are experiencing on the blog here:
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/
Any changes/improvements to embassy/consulate services tend to show up there first.
This web site might be very useful. The idea is to provide information so that anti- Harperites can avoid splitting their votes. I signed up and pledged to support the candidate in West Vancouver who has the best chance of defeating John Weston. If the admins think this could be helpful to us they could give it a new thread.
http://www.votetogether.ca
do you need a US passport to renounce a dual at birth citizenship. thanks
Cowbell. No but your question deserves a better answer. What proof if any do you have of US citizenship?
mother US citizen at birth moved here at 21 YO, i was born to Canadian father, the us mother, in 1985,
mother became a Canadian in 1992,
I do not know if this was the correct place to ask this, but i kept looking so i posted it here, thanks.
i do not believe i should be “US” but everthing i have read and heard seems to indicate i am
Cowbell You didn’t say where you were born or whether your birth was registered with the US State Dep’t. Give us a little help here.
sorry… born in canada, never registered, never passport, no ties whatsoever to the US except that the one parent, m(other) was US citizen when i was born. from what i have read…. because my mother was US ciotizen when i was born, here in canada, in 1986, i am a “dual at birth”
i hate the idea, but it looks like the best idea is just to suck it up, and get rid of it?
but the fact that to do the “tax filing” kinda makes you admit to being “US” makes me want to vomit…LOL
should it not be up to the “US” to prove i am a citizen… and how would they go about doing that?
I could care less about the US, but I just do not want to be harassed the next 50 years or so?
OK now we can talk turkey. This subject has been covered at length and there hasn’t been a definite conclusion.
You will get 2 opinions. 1) You are a US citizen. or 2) You have a claim to US citizenship.
Lets look at no 1. Say you went to a consulate and asked for a passport. They would ask if you have a certificate of registration of birth abroad. If you don’t have one, it would be a hard slog for you to be accepted as a US citizen but you would eventually prevail if you can prove your mother is American. Then you might consider applying for a social security number. For that you have to go to the US and present evidence for where you have been every year of your life. When you are successful, you now have to turn around and pay 2500US$ to renounce. You are also supposed to file 5 years of tax returns.
Let’s look at no. 2. You were born in Canada. No-one knows you have a claim to US citizenship.
Seems fairly straightforward to me.
thanks, but it is still ambiguous….. It is not that i want to “claim to be US” (just the opposite) but the link to the birth parent ( us citizen, dual today) is something that is Permanent, and can never be erased……..but it is deep;y buried….. so back to the original question:
do you need a need a US passport to renounce???? as it seems to me there has to be some way for these
“terrorists” to establish your pedigree, so to let you renounce.
would a copy of your own canadain birth certificate surfice, along with a copy of my mothers US birth certificate?
also, what is the best thread to ask general questions such as this…. as now i am getting serious about learning all i can in order to make the move in a month or two
thanks a lot
The best thread would be http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation/
It is very long. You have a lot of work to do. Take your time to make a rational decision. You are among friends. Good luck.
@cowbell,
Duke of Devon gave you one way of looking at your situation — it may be best that you slow down and read some of the informational posts on the right-hand side of the home page of Isaac Brock Society. Don’t, don’t, don’t make any rash decisions for there are many adverse consequences.
Please also read thoroughly at this link to recognize *adverse consequences*: http://citizenshipsolutions.ca/. There is advice there that the very FIRST thing you want to do, BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE, is absolutely determine IF you really are a US citizen. Read there and ask your questions there or come back here to ask further questions. Read, read, read and then read some more. It will eventually be a bit easier to understand. Again, do not make any rash decisions you may regret.
[I did. I regret. My children were born in Canada to two US parents and were never registered as US births abroad. I, though, believe they are Canadian. (My daughter has renounced at great cost — my son cannot because he does not have the requisite mental capacity to do so.) As Duke said, there is no clear answer whether there is *a claim to US citizenship*. There are links in the Archive that will get you to some of those discussions if you do a search.]
Here is a link that might help with answering part of your question *do you need a US passport to renounce*. Reading it will help you realize a long road of complexity for you regarding whether you have a claim to US citizenship or whether you acquired it from the moment you were born. http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/filling-out-form-n-600-application-certificate-citizenship.html.
Note that the article above says (but you cannot take that as legal advice).
Read, read, read and then again read Duke’s advice to you, cowbell.
@Cowbell,
If your previously US citizen mother did not register your Canadian birth with the US, did not obtain a SSN or a passport for you, the US government doesn’t know you exist.
Unless you, your mother, or someone in your family has run screaming “US PERSON, US PERSON” about you to your Canadian bank, you should have no US indicia for your bank to hassle you over.
The IRS is too busy with the avalanche of paperwork they will be receiving from FATCA to hop on Ancestry.com to trace the descendants of every former US citizen that left the country.