Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

2,365 names of ex-U.S. citizens in latest published expatriates list

The Quarterly Publication of Individuals, Who Have Chosen to Expatriate for Q4 2016 has been placed on public inspection for printing in tomorrow’s Federal Register, ten days later than required by law. The IRS gave 2,365 names in this list, making it the largest they’ve ever published. We had a total of 5,411 published expatriates in 2016 (1,158 in Q1, 509 in Q2, and 1,379 in Q3). That’s slightly larger than the 5,321 federal additions to the “Renounced U.S. Citizenship” category in the FBI’s NICS gun control database last year. However, NICS only includes 8 USC § 1481(a)(5) renunciants, whereas the Federal Register is supposed to include relinquishers under other paragraphs of 1481(a) as well.

How many non-renunciant relinquishers are there? We’re not sure. In January, the State Department published updated Paperwork Reduction Act estimates stating that about 600 people per year file Form DS-4079, “Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship”. After the Foreign Affairs Manual update two years ago, DS-4079 is no longer used for renunciation cases, so that gives a lower bound on the number of 1481(1) to (4) relinquishers. The tens of thousands of people who abandon green cards each year definitely aren’t in the IRS list either, even though it misleadingly claims that “[f]or purposes of this listing, long-term residents, as defined in section 877(e)(2), are treated as if they were citizens of the United States who lost citizenship”.

The list is not only incomplete, but slow to include names; for example, Rachel Heller, who renounced all the way back in November 2015, didn’t show up until this quarter. Brockers who gave up citizenship as recently as August of last year did get their names published, but Japanese politician Kimi Onoda, who renounced in October 2016, is not included in the current list. In other words, we are not yet seeing the impact of the U.S. election results. The sudden growth in the list has some other cause.

Table of contents

  1. Who are the people in this list?
  2. And when did they give up citizenship?
  3. Comparison with NICS
  4. Table of recent relinquishments by public figures
  5. Media articles about the list as a whole

Who are the people in this list?

I’m sure the media coverage of this list will continue to be largely misleading. So it’s worth repeating what I said last quarter: the people in this list are not “fleeing the country”. They left years or even decades ago. (Some didn’t even know for most of their lives that they were U.S. citizens.) Their appearance in this list means that, after having settled in another country for many years, they have taken the step of obtaining a Certificate of Loss of Nationality from the U.S. government.

Some were self-identifying Americans abroad who saw cutting off their legal ties to Washington, DC (and its coterie of self-serving revolving-door bureaucrats who pretend they don’t know that they’re ruining our lives) as the only way to survive all the damage that previous presidents and Congresses inflicted on the diaspora. They’d reached their breaking points long before anyone knew who’d even be on the ballot in November, let alone how long it would take the next administration to follow through on its promises to make things right.

Others considered themselves primarily as citizens of other countries, and saw U.S. citizenship as a barrier to their lives in the country they considered home. They didn’t have any stake in who’d be U.S. president — but instead of making it easy for these de facto non-Americans to become de jure non-Americans, the U.S. government put all sorts of unnecessary barriers in their way, turning what should have been an amicable split into a bureaucratic nightmare.

Back to table of contents

And when did they give up citizenship?

In theory, if the State Department were reasonably prompt in forwarding Certificates of Loss of Nationality to the IRS, this list would contain the names of people who relinquished U.S. citizenship in October, November, or December of 2016. In practice, though a small number of people do show up in the list directly after the calendar quarter when they renounce, most people take at least six months to a year.

I expect that the bulk of the people named in this latest list made their final visit to a U.S. consulate well before the Homeland election night. Furthermore, it takes months just to get that final appointment (unless you have the cash & time to take an overseas renunciation vacation to Iceland or Mexico), meaning that the latest batch of published expatriates probably started their bureaucratic odyssey back in early-to-mid 2017 or even 2016.

So I seriously doubt that this list reflects any effect from the U.S. election results yet. (On the margins, a few people might have decided to cancel or delay their consular appointment at the last minute in order to wait and see if the Republicans would fulfill their big campaign promises. However, that would make the list smaller rather than bigger.) Anyway, whatever influence the election might have on people’s decisions about their U.S. citizenship, the results probably won’t start showing up until next quarter’s list at the earliest.

Back to table of contents

Comparison with NICS

The below table lists the monthly additions to NICS for 2011–2016, compared with the quarterly lists in the Federal Register. As you’ll notice, this is the first year since 2011 that the Federal Register actually listed more ex-citizens than NICS did.

The FBI has the bad habit of uploading the new NICS report each month at the same URL as the old one; the only way to keep a verifiable collection of old reports is to save old ones in the Internet Archive each month, and unfortunately we didn’t remember to do this for all months, though we’ve had a good track record over the past year. If the month is set in upright type, the link goes to an actual Internet Archive copy of the FBI NICS report for that month. If the month is in bold type (for December), the link goes to the NICS annual operations report for the appropriate year. Finally, for months in italics, the link goes to a Brock post or comment.

Update, 9 February, 08:45 GMT: I added years 2006–2010 to the table. The earliest NICS monthly report I’ve been able to dig out of the Internet Archive is for February 2010, and I couldn’t find enough 2010 reports to give a decent picture of the monthly updates. So for years before 2011, the table only lists an annual NICS total, based on the difference between that year’s annual report and the previous one. The State Department, which provides the FBI with CLNs of renunciants to populate the “Renounced U.S. Citizenship” category, sent one large batch of CLNs in 1998 when NICS was created, but appear not to have sent any more until 2006; for example, the 2000 and 2005 annual reports both showed 12,603 “Renounced U.S. Citizenship” records.

First quarter Second quarter Third quarter Fourth quarter
FR
citation
Addi-
tions
FR
citation
Addi-
tions
FR
citation
Addi-
tions
FR
citation
Addi-
tions
Year-end
total
71 FR 25648 100 71 FR 50993 31 71 FR 63857 41 72 FR 5103 106
Annual totals for 2006 Fed. Reg. 278 NICS 48 12,651
72 FR 26687 107 72 FR 44228 114 72 FR 63237 105 73 FR 7631 144
Annual totals for 2007 Fed. Reg. 470 NICS 317 12,968
73 FR 26190 123 73 FR 43285 23 73 FR 65036 22 74 FR 6219 63
Annual totals for 2008 Fed. Reg. 231 NICS 655 13,623
74 FR 20105 67 74 FR 35199 15 74 FR 60039 158 75 FR 9028 503
Annual totals for 2009 Fed. Reg. 743 NICS 714 14,337
75 FR 28853 179 75 FR 69160 560 75 FR 69158 397 76 FR 7907 398
Annual totals for 2010 Fed. Reg. 1,534 NICS 1,009 15,346
First quarter Second quarter Third quarter Fourth quarter
Month,
year
Addi-
tions
Month-end
total
Month,
year
Addi-
tions
Month-end
total
Month,
year
Addi-
tions
Month-end
total
Month,
year
Addi-
tions
Month-end
total
Apr 2011 41 15,387 Jul 2011 89 15,705 Oct 2011 118 15,930
May 2011 98 15,445 Aug 2011 54 15,759 Nov 2011 40 15,970
Jun 2011 131 15,616 Sep 2011 53 15,812 Dec 2011 34 16,004
Q2 total 270 Q3 total 196 Q4 total 192
76 FR 27175 499 76 FR 46898 519 76 FR 66361 403 77 FR 5308 360
Annual totals for 2011 Fed. Reg. 1,781 NICS 656 16,004
Jan 2012 265 16,269 Apr 2012 204 16,662 Jul 2012 22 17,188 Oct 2012 3,106 20,577
Feb 2012 98 16,367 May 2012 Missing Aug 2012 149 17,337 Nov 2012 97 20,654
Mar 2012 89 16,458 Jun 2012 504 17,166 Sep 2012 114 17,451 Dec 2012 0 20,654
Q1 total 452 Q2 total 708 Q3 total 285 Q4 total 3,203
77 FR 25538 460 77 FR 44310 189 77 FR 66084 238 78 FR 10692 45
Annual totals for 2012 Fed. Reg. 932 NICS *4,648 W/o backlog:
~1,700
Jan 2013 176 20,830 Apr 2013 319 21,823 Jul 2013 298 22,908 Oct 2013 302 23,557
Feb 2013 478 21,308 May 2013 374 22,197 Aug 2013 278 23,186 Nov 2013 118 23,675
Mar 2013 196 21,504 Jun 2013 413 22,610 Sep 2013 69 23,255 Dec 2013 132 23,807
Q1 total 850 Q2 total 1,106 Q3 total 645 Q4 total 552
78 FR 26867 679 78 FR 48773 1,130 78 FR 68151 560 79 FR 7504 631
Annual totals for 2013 Fed. Reg. 3,000 NICS 3,153 23,807
Jan 2014 320 24,127 Apr 2014 382 24,602 Jul 2014 577 26,000 Oct 2014 426 26,916
Feb 2014 95 24,222 May 2014 205 24,807 Aug 2014 180 26,180 Nov 2014 187 27,103
Mar 2014 -2 24,220 Jun 2014 616 25,423 Sep 2014 300 26,480 Dec 2014 137 27,240
Q1 total 413 Q2 total 1,203 Q3 total 1,057 Q4 total 750
79 FR 25176 1,001 79 FR 46306 576 79 FR 64031 776 80 FR 7685 1,062
Annual totals for 2014 Fed. Reg. 3,415 NICS 3,423 27,240
Jan 2015 271 27,511 Apr 2015 767 29,413 Jul 2015 856 30,973 Oct 2015 194 31,869
Feb 2015 105 27,616 May 2015 543 29,956 Aug 2015 552 31,525 Nov 2015 318 32,187
Mar 2015 1,030 28,646 Jun 2015 161 30,117 Sep 2015 150 31,675 Dec 2015 479 32,666
Q1 total 1,406 Q2 total 1,471 Q3 total 1,568 Q4 total 989
80 FR 26618 1,335 80 FR 45709 460 80 FR 65851 1,426 81 FR 6598 1,058
Annual totals for 2015 Fed. Reg. 4,279 NICS (-10) 5,416 32,666
Jan 2016 253 32,919 Apr 2016 860 34,807 Jul 2016 350 36,378 Oct 2016 440 37,346
Feb 2016 539 33,458 May 2016 765 35,572 Aug 2016 252 36,630 Nov 2016 227 37,573
Mar 2016 489 33,947 Jun 2016 456 36,028 Sep 2016 276 36,906 Dec 2016 430 38,003
Q1 total 1,281 Q2 total 2,081 Q3 total 878 Q4 total 1,097
81 FR 27198 1,158 81 FR 50058 509 81 FR 79098 1,379 82 FR 10185 2,365
Annual totals for 2016 Fed. Reg. 5,411 NICS (-16) 5,321 38,003

A few caveats. The “addition” figure for April 2011 refers to all additions since December 2010. The “addition” figure for October 2012 includes what the FBI described as a “backlog” of 2,900 renunciant records, also included in the annual total for that year. I also gave an estimate of what the annual total would be without the backlog, even though some of the backlog may relate to other periods covered by the chart. Finally, the annual figures for 2015 and 2016 are smaller than the sum of the monthly additions because I subtracted out erroneous renunciant records submitted by U.S. state governments; see the Active Records in the NICS Index by State reports for 2015 and 2016.

Specifically, the government of Illinois submitted 9 records to the “Renounced U.S. Citizenship” category in 2015 or earlier, and 16 records in 2016, while North Carolina submitted one record in 2015 or earlier. These could be duplicates of records already entered by the State Department, for example if a renunciant moved back to the U.S., and the state government became aware of his citizenship status and thought they had to tell NICS. More likely, these are people who don’t meet the category definition in the first place, such as “freeman on the land” types who claim to be citizens of their state only and tried to renounce federal citizenship at the post office or by public notice in a newspaper.

Back to table of contents

Table of recent relinquishments by public figures

A variety of updates to the table this quarter. As Andrew Mitchel notes, there’s an Alexander Boris Johnson in the list (at page 27 of the pre-print); that is probably the floppy-haired Anglo-American imperialist ex-mayor of London, who claimed in 2006 and 2015 that he was going to renounce citizenship, but doesn’t actually appear to have got around to it until sometime in early 2016.

I am no longer including ex-citizens of 2014 and earlier vintage in the table. Bitcoin businessman Roger Ver and Ghanaian finance official Mona Quartey, both of whom renounced in 2014, have not yet appeared in the list, and given the length of time that has passed it is likely they never will. In the early years of the list, some people took nearly six years to show up — like author Shere Hite, who renounced in 1995 but didn’t get her name published until the much-delayed Q2 2001 list. However, in more recent years, if your name hasn’t shown up within about 18 months, it’s likely that State & the IRS just forgot about you entirely. You can always call up the Philadelphia IRS office and remind them to print your name, the way Mike Gogulski did.

Name Occupation Other
citizenship
Giving up US citizenship Appeared in
Federal
Register
?
Source
Reason Date
Rachel AZARIA Politician Israel Take office as Member of Knesset January 2015 Q2 2016 Times of Israel
Jonathan TEPPER Macroeconomic analyst United Kingdom FATCA & other U.S. tax reporting requirements January 2015 Q1 2016 The New York Times
David ALWARD Politician Canada Become Canadian consul-general in Boston April 2015 or earlier Q3 2015 Canadian Broadcasting Corporation
YANG Chen-ning Physicist China Restore Chinese citizenship April 2015 Q3 2015 Xinhua (China)
Andrew YAO Chi-chih Computer scientist China Restore Chinese citizenship Unclear Q3 2015 Xinhua (China)
Alfred Oko VANDERPUIJE Politician Ghana Stand for election to Parliament August 2015 No Starr FM (Ghana)
Philip RYU Singer South Korea Serve in South Korean army September 2015 or earlier No Money Today (South Korea)
Rachel HELLER Writer Netherlands FATCA & other U.S. tax reporting requirements even when no U.S. tax is owed November 2015 Q4 2016 Blog (will be included in TV news programme at a later date)
Susan WOOD Unknown Canada FATCA & other compliance issues November 2015 Q3 2016 Vancouver Sun
KANG Dong-suk Violinist South Korea Restore South Korean citizenship 2015 (month not specified) No News1 (South Korea)
Pavel BURE Ice hockey player Russia “US passport was no longer needed” Early 2016 (month not specified) Q4 2016 Sputnik News; Pravda Report
Neil (Teodoro) LLAMANZARES Businessman Philippines Public opinion (his wife ran for President, but lost after he renounced) April 2016 Q3 2016 Rappler (Philippines)
TAO Yuequn Businessman China Unknown April 2016 or earlier No Sina Finance
LEE Chih-kung Physicist Taiwan Appointed Minister of Economic Affairs by President-elect Tsai Ing-wen May 2016 Q3 2016 Apple Daily (Taiwan)
Ned (Nader) MANNOUN Politician Australia Run for Australian parliament May 2016 or earlier Q4 2016 Liverpool Champion (Australia)
Karen ALPERT Academic Australia FATCA & other compliance issues June 2016 Q4 2016 Sydney Morning Herald
Yehuda GLICK Politician Israel Take office as Member of Knesset May 2016 No Arutz Sheva (Israel)
Judy CHAN Ka-pui Politician Hong Kong Run for Hong Kong Legislative Council July 2016 Q3 2016 Apple Daily (Hong Kong)
Boris JOHNSON Politician United Kingdom Taxes or politics or whatever July 2016 or earlier Q4 2016 Daily Mail
Kimi ONODA Politician Japan Dual-at-birth, did Japanese-law “choice of nationality” long ago, didn’t know U.S. still considered her a citizen October 2016? No Viewpoint (Japan)

Back to table of contents

Media articles about the list as a whole (updated 10 Feb)

A couple of good articles

Media coverage of this quarter’s list mostly focuses on Boris Johnson, to the exclusion of the thousands of other newly-minted ex-citizens. The first article I’ve seen so far discussing the list and tax problems as a whole is this one by Caroline May over at The Daily Caller; unlike other outlets, they got some real value out of their interview with Andrew Mitchel. Unfortunately, citizenship relinquishment is a complex issue, and they seem to have misunderstood a point Mitchel was trying to make and condensed a quote from him down so far that it doesn’t make any sense:

When asked if he expected the expatriation trend to continue under President Donald Trump, Mitchel responded, “I believe that President Trump is against U.S. ‘birthright’ citizenship.”

Leaving aside the question of whether Republican proposals to restrict or eliminate jus soli have any chance of passing, none of the ones I’ve seen suggest doing so retroactively, meaning that any effect on expatriations wouldn’t show up until the next generation of babies reaches adulthood. H.R. 140, the Birthright Citizenship Act of 2017, sponsored by Steve King (R-IA), a fairly representative example, restricts jus soli to the children of citizens, non-citizen nationals (i.e. American Samoans), green card holders, or members of the armed forces, but explicitly states that it “shall not be construed to affect the citizenship or nationality status of any person born before the date of the enactment of this Act.”

Robert Wood at Forbes also wrote a good article covering the major themes: FATCA, bank account issues, the $2,350 fee, and the incompleteness of the list.

And a bunch of average-to-poor ones

Adam Taylor at the Washington Post at least mentions the problems that incompatible British & American tax breaks caused for BoJo, whereas Patrick Wintour at The Guardian, Katrin Bennhold at The New York Times, and Nikita Vladimirov at The Hill don’t even get to that level of detail. To be fair, however, all their articles avoid making any inaccurate, unsupported claims about the completeness of the list. In contrast, Laura Saunders at the Wall Street Journal, who should know better, misleadingly claims (emphasis mine) that “[t]he Treasury Department list includes the names of all people who renounced U.S. citizenship or long-term permanent residence in the latest quarter“. Elizabeth Piper at Reuters echoes the inaccurate “all” and LPR claims.

We’ve been pointing out here for nearly five years that many names go missing from the list — a phenomenon which did not seem to occur during the first decade of the list’s existence, but only began cropping up around 2006. It’s also quite clear that the list doesn’t just include people from “the latest quarter”, but those who renounced more than a year ago. And the IRS’ long-standing complaint — that they couldn’t include green carders in the list or enforce the exit tax against them because immigration authorities weren’t providing the IRS with SSNs or dates of residence — has never been resolved. There’s still nowhere to write your SSN on Form I-407 even after the recent redesign, and USCIS explicitly stated last year (emphasis mine) that when you file I-407, “we will provide only your name and the filing date to the IRS”.

Political preconceptions

The first article I’ve seen which tries to draw a line between the U.S. election and the list is this one by Deidre McPhillips of U.S. News. She got a quote from Andrew Mitchel telling her the real reason why so many people are giving up U.S. citizenship — the escalation of “offshore” penalties — but instead she concludes her article by discussing things that happened in a faraway country long after the people in the list made their decisions to give up citizenship:

However, today’s list that covers the last quarter of 2016 – the time period after Donald Trump was elected president – is nearly twice as long as the list from the last quarter of 2015.

Leading up to the U.S. election, a number of high-profile individuals, including Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg and actor Bryan Cranston said, jokingly or otherwise, that they would leave the country if Trump was elected. A number of countries, including Canada and New Zealand, also launched campaigns promoting themselves as destinations for Americans looking to leave the country after the election.

The IRS reports include the names of expatriated individuals for which the Treasury secretary has received information, which is subject to logistical delay, but the annual totals of individuals choosing to expatriate has been steadily rising since 2012.

It’s strange that she notes that the list can be “subject to logistical delay” but doesn’t see how that affects her assumption that the growth in the list was driven by the U.S. election. Trump supporters over on Reddit have mostly jumped to the same erroneous conclusion as McPhillips, as have many Drudge Report readers. Russia’s Sputnik News also ran a cartoon by Ted Rall on the same theme, though as the attached blurb notes, “the trend began in 2011, while Trump was still hosting The Apprentice.”

120 thoughts on “2,365 names of ex-U.S. citizens in latest published expatriates list

  1. @UnforgivenToo
    “The worst thing about THAT country is that one of those groups is fixated on hunting down and torturing US persons worldwide, probably because they are jealous of our (us expats) freedoms.”

    Jealous? Worse, that country suffers from a severe case of the inferiority complex.

  2. “Under the UDHR, changing one’s nationality is a human right; I find it incomprehensible how a human right eventually became a criminal act of some sort.”

    Because the world’s paramount authority on human rights knows that it is.

  3. Oh yeah, and two members of the Chinese Academy of Sciences (Yang Chen-ning and Andrew Yao) renounced US citizenship in order to restore their Chinese citizenship
    https://www.hk01.com/%E5%85%A9%E5%B2%B8/73507/%E6%A5%8A%E6%8C%AF%E5%AF%A7%E5%A7%9A%E6%9C%9F%E6%99%BA%E6%94%BE%E6%A3%84%E7%BE%8E%E5%9C%8B%E5%9C%8B%E7%B1%8D-%E8%BD%89%E7%82%BA%E4%B8%AD%E7%A7%91%E9%99%A2%E9%99%A2%E5%A3%AB

    Apparently this was a while ago (Yang showed up in the Q3 2015 list, didn’t check for Yao) but it didn’t get reported in the media until now. Will add to the table once I can figure out roughly when they actually had their appointment at the US conssulate

  4. Okay, Xinhua says Yang renounced in April 2015 (not sure about Yao). Both are in the Q3 2015 list. Updated the table.
    http://news.xinhuanet.com/science/2017-02/22/c_136076296.htm

    Chinese immigrants in the US are reacting just like born-and-bred American Homelanders (see the comments)
    http://www.wenxuecity.com/news/2017/02/21/6038331.html

    One guy in China also thinks it was just for tax reasons (Yang is 94 and Yao is 70; not sure if either is rich enough to be worried about the estate tax)
    http://chuansong.me/n/1597293452213

  5. The Philippine Daily Inquirer published what appears to be the CLN of Philippine Foreign Secretary Perfecto Yasay. (The name Perfecto Yasay was in the latest list.) Shows an approval date on the same day as his renunciation appointment: 28 June 2016.
    http://globalnation.inquirer.net/152893/yasay-american-filipino-stateless

    Again, we still have no evidence of anyone who relinquished later than August showing up in this quarter’s list, contrary to the narrative (seen in both CONservative and LIbEral Homeland media) that a bunch of people decided to renounce on the morning of 9 November and managed to get an appointment by the end of the year.

  6. A FOIA to State requesting the revenue collected from CLN fees collections should give a more accurate indication.

    I challenge Brockers (Eric?) to file such a foia request!

  7. @ Eric
    I rummaged around in my files to see if I could find an Examiner article written by John Gaver in 2014 but despite having saved the URL it now misdirects you to something totally unrelated. Anyway I had suggested in the comment section that the article be retracted because the information re: the Federal Register was inaccurate. He replied to my comment (using the name Solid_Facts) saying,

    I understand that there are a very few formal expats whose name appears on the Federal Register “Name and Shame” lists, who are not counted among the very wealthy. My research revealed that a random sampling of 100 names, gathered from lists between 2006 and 2009 were all rich. In a past life, I was a title abstractor, so I am very adept at finding information on people and the property they own. I know that there are names on the lists that probably don’t belong there. But they are likely just bureaucratic errors and make up an insignificant part of the lists.

    John Gaver will never be convinced he is wrong about this. However he does agree with all of us that CBT needs to be eliminated but he would advocate for Fair Tax rather than RBT.

  8. Its at least plausible that the 100 random names he gathered from the 2006-2009 lists were primarily wealthy people, but that was more than a decade ago, i.e. at this point its now ancient history. Its faulty science to just assume those findings can be extrapolated to more recent times.

    He obviously needs to do another sampling to reflect those who renounced due to Obama’s war on expats which started around 2010. The beginning of the pronounced uptick in renunciations would be a good place for him to analyze another random 100 names, say the 5 years from 2012-2016. He would likely find that the average wealth greatly decreased while the numbers of renunciants greatly increased. If he can’t be bothered to update his research its obvious he has preconceived conclusions and isn’t interested in correctly understanding the present situation. The fact that he still believes only covered expats are on the list and that the Reed Amendment defines that status (both easily refutable) indicates he really isn’t all that interested in the truth. Sort of reminds me of the mythster Robert Stack.

  9. @ maz57
    I asked him if he had researched lists AFTER FATCA came into being and he indicated that he would but I don’t know what happened after that. He wrote,

    In the last week, I started a similar study for 2011 thru 2013. But it takes lots of time. Some of the people on the list can be found in 10 or 15 minutes. But most take several hours. Many are long-term permanent residents and that requires some additional work. But most (though not all) of those people tend to have unique foreign names, so it’s easier to confirm that the person you have found is the correct person. I also only have time to do this about half an hour a day. So I suspect that it will take me a couple of months to get through 100 more names. You will be interested to know that of the few that I have completed, so far, one was not confirmed to be wealthy enough to be a “Covered Expatriate”. He was obviously well off, but not that well off. I don’t have enough samples for that to mean anything yet, though.

  10. @EmBee
    Maybe we here at Brock could help him out with our own anonymous survey?
    Could any of our talented contributors set up a simple questionnaire for our renounced Brockers to answer, covered or uncovered, on or off the list?

  11. @ Heidi
    That would be an interesting questionnaire or set of polls. I could start it with my husband … uncovered, on the list (2014) and he is very relieved to have a CLN. He’s just a rare bureaucratic error according to John Gaver who seems to be sticking to that theory in his 2017 wikipedia update.

  12. Yes, seems like everyone I know who is on the list is not covered.

    Also some people have appeared on the list before they filed their 8854 – and before their 8854 was due, so they couldn’t have become covered because they didn’t file it. There’s no way Treasury could have known at the time their names appeared if these persons were covered or not.

    This part doesn’t make sense to me either . . .

    Mr. Gaver seems to concede that inclusion of non-covered persons on the list does occur, but as a “bureaucratic error.” It can’t be a bureaucratic error, because the law does not stipulate that only covered expatriates are to appear on the list.

    The law says things like “any individual,” “a copy of each [CLN to be provided to Treasury], “any,” “each,” no modifiers, and very clearly says , in 6039G(d)(3), “the Secretary shall publish in the Federal Register the name of each individual losing United States citizenship (within the meaning of section 877(a) or 877A).”

    26 US Code 877A, referred to in the above quote, deals with *all* expatriates, covered and non-covered. The sections of 877A which deal specifically with covered expatriates make no mention of this, or any, list.

    I didn’t see him give any sources that actually back up his claim that the list is for covered expatriates only. He does footnote his contention — but even the law he cites in his footnotes contradicts what he contends. The law stipulates that all individuals are to be on the list. It does not say that only covered individuals are to be on the list. (HIPPA, s. 512; 26 US Code 6039G).

    We’ve been hearing the term “fake news” in the vernacular lately – unless I’m missing something (if so, please point it out), this Wikipedia article comes across to me like “fake scholarship.”

  13. @ pacifica777
    Yes “fake” is the new “it” word these days but sloppy will pass the test of time. So I’m going to call it “sloppy scholarship”. OTOH Mr. Gaver IS onboard about CBT being wrong so I’m good with that. The list is a farce on its own (incomplete, inconsistent and simply not to be trusted), so it’s rather like piling on to mislead people about how it is their name will appear on it. It’s Eric I trust on this, certainly not John Gaver.

  14. Won’t be long before the Liberty List will be a shame for America. Just a hunch, but I don’t think it’s long for this world.

  15. Even if John Gaver’s right that the list only includes covered expatriates, that is extremely far from proving that it only includes “wealthy people”, since you can become an “877(a)(2)(C) covered expatriate” by failing to certify under penalty of perjury on Form 8854 that you’ve crossed your ‘i’s and dotted your ‘t’s on the past five years of tax forms. I would go so far as to guess that the majority of covered expatriates fall into that category, and not just in recent years.

    Here’s a known case of a farmer earning US$25,000/year appearing in the list in 1998
    https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/03/who-renounces-u-s-citizenship-south-korean-apple-farmers/

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