Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
I should also add that if it were just flying in the face of an American law, that would be one thing.
But we are in Canada, and like it or not, the IGA has impacted the laws of our lands too, and he wants to stay law-abiding here. He’s too honest for his own good and to his detriment.
It’s both adorable and infuriating.
@Isabelle Brock –
I filed my back years of FBARs as “Delinquent FBAR submissions”, relying on the IRS statement that
If your husband files the returns first, making sure to report any interest and include Schedule B and say yes to any “have you got any foreign accounts” question in each year (not just the one year he has to file FBAR), he should be covered.
Status: I’ve read that the way to do this is file MFS and put NRA where it asks for the non-US spouses tax number, name, etc. I don’t know if that’s correct.
@ Isabelle,
If you’d like to preview the auto-reply that CanadaCLNinquiries@state.gov sends (there’s a lot of information in it), Patricia Moon has posted the contents of it (as it was in February 2016).
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/02/17/new-instructions-to-book-canada-appointments-to-relinquish-or-renounce-us-citizenship/
@Isabelle, I don’t believe Canadian banks will ask an existing customer, Canadian resident, their birthplace or citizenship for mortgage renewal. As Nate was born dual, in Canada, I don’t believe relinquishment would be allowed by the State dept. because he works as a teacher. My two cents.
@Charl, I believe my husband and I were required to provide our parents’ names and birthplaces when we married 20+ years ago in BC. Having done genealogy research, I can tell you this is a very old practice. Genealogists would be lost without it. 😀
Isabelle Fair enough Good luck. P.S. i also agree with The Mom-there appears to be no reason to ask citizenship for a mortgage renewal-he isn’t opening an account.
Thanks guys. We deal with a broker, so if we switch lenders in the process, the question will likely come up.
Why not ask the mortgage broker what he would do in advance? My financial guy follows a don’t ask don’t tell policy
I just had a good friend who is a mortgage broker stop by my office to say hi so I asked her “do you ask a person’s citizenship or place of birth when brokering a mortgage?”
her eyes got large and said “oh hell no. why would I care where a person was born or their citizenship. I just want to get them a mortgage.”
thanks for all your replies. No I was a kid when we got the passport but you are probably right it must have been a long form birth certificate. Does anyone know how I actually speak with someone at the Toronto consulate that actually knows what might be needed in lieu of those other documents? I am happy to just leave it, stop filing taxes, FBARS etc.. but I do have a SSN, thats it. I would love to get written documentation that I cant prove I am US that would be awesome (and thankfully no such letter have I received). thanks for all your ideas!
@james
When you request a Loss of Nationality appointment, just include your question. It might take a few days for a real person to get back to you and it might not be someone from the Toronto consulate, but that’s likely your best bet.
James. Never poke a bear in the eye. Seriously you want to prove you are a southerner so you can turn around and spend $3000 to say you don’t want to be a southerner any longer?
@Duke lol thanks, but what happens if down the road I get an inheritance and then they come calling? I never should have started to file taxes/fbars 5 years ago in hindsight really, but whats done is done, don’t you think Sam will come a calling then?
@James – you can see the documents required in lieu of Certificate of Citizenship at https://ca.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/citizenship-claims/
Should be a simple matter to arrange to be unable to provide number 8 on the list. But be aware that if the plan backfires and they do accept whatever evidence you provide, you’ll then be faced with the whole compliance hassle and a fee of $2350 to get back to the position you’re currently in. 🙁
If I were in your shoes I’d let sleeping attack dogs lie. If you can’t prove your citizenship, the IRS sure can’t – and there’s no reason to think they would waste time/money trying to do so.
@James – Oops – I hadn’t picked up on the fact that you’ve filed before. In that case I would think you’re correct – best to jump through the hoops, prove citizenship, renounce and comply.
No I don’t think Sam will come calling. Estates are taxed at the level of the estate not the heirs.
The only issue would be ‘why did you stop filing after 5 years?’ It all depends on your level of assets and income. If you are a true minnow, they won’t care. If you are a big fish, you can contact someone such as John Richardson for proper advice.
@duke ok thanks, no i didnt stop filling, i started filing 5 years ago. no i am not a big fish but the inheritance “could be” a decent amount but its a ways away still. but also i dont want to have the added time consumption of filing fbars and taxes each year either which i assume i cant just stop doing? thanks for everyones help!
@Duke re: “Seriously you want to prove you are a southerner so you can turn around and spend $3000 to say you don’t want to be a southerner any longer?”
Isn’t that what so many have done in the process of becoming compliant? Lots of US slaves have never had a SSN, and in order to become US slave compliant, they have to prove they are a US slave first to get the tattoo number that they need to become compliant US slaves so that they can pay the master and officially leave the plantation.
I received my CLN today. I renounced on February 24, 2016, so it went surprisingly fast. I started the process of contacting the embassy in January.
Congrats Joe. That is nice to see that every once in awhile they have a more timely fashion. 19 months and counting for me.
@Joe
Congrats from me too! Which Embassy?
@ Krackerjack
Should ask you too, which embassy?
@ Japan T.
It was done in Tijuana. I will have more to report later. I have been in contact with the State Department regarding this. I will post it once I have my CLN in my hands.
Cheers.
I want a separate forum here of those who really had no reason to lose their citizenship, other than this travesty.
I believe that this would be VERY telling, long-term?
@ Krackerjack and Japan T
Thank you! The Stockholm embassy.
@Jane, yep. Kind of like with AA in telling your story.