UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
@ George…really wished I could been there! If I didn’t have concerns about my marriage and job, I would have loved to have complained/explained to the courts!
Speaking of Roy Berg (mentioned earlier today, apparently working on behalf of the wrong side) I just want to provide this article which exemplifies the thinking of the “compliance condors” and how they stand to benefit from US tax law. I especially resent their use of the words “tax obligations” to the USA. This links you directly to the Moody’s Gartner website and demonstrates the kind of crap they will use to scare you into visiting them and forking over big $$$ to meet your “obligations.” No wonder he’s there, trying to protect his livelihood on the backs of innocent, quality people (us!).
I totally agree with the much earlier reference to tarring and feathering and dumping back across the US border as deserved. Can anyone see a difference between this and common mugging?
http://www.moodysgartner.com/no-social-security-number-goodbye-passport/
I hope I’m not alone in my confusion, but…that’s it? After all this time, preparation and cost, the ultimate decision is based on two days of testimony? Seems to me the judge would barely have scratched the surface of what needs to be considered. And if our courageous plaintiffs win, does that in effect strike the IGA from the law books once and for all (if there is no appeal)? Or is this summary trial merely to get an injunction on the data handover, in advance of a larger trial on the legality of the IGA? Never mind appeals. In the unlikely event of no appeal, is the case closed after the judge announces his decision on September 13?
Sorry for my ignorance. It’s the word “summary trial” that has confused me all along, and I kind of expected a trial to go on for days and days, with expert testimony being trotted out. Or is the expert testimony all in the form of affidavits and the pre-trial examinations?
But no matter what: well done to everyone! I may not understand everything that’s happened, but at least these reports give me a huge boost of hope.
@PierreD
It concerned me a bit today at Court to see Roy Berg along with his cronies being given a conference room of their own in which to confer. They weren’t–officially at least though they seemed a bit buddy-buddy with the Crown attorneys–affiliated with either side so why did they merit their own conference room?
Amazing, amazing job though by Joe, Mr. Gruber, Gwen, and everyone else! I’ll have more to say later but it was an incredible experience! May Justice Martineau find the wisdom–and I know in my heart he is trying hard–to make the right decision.
@Barbara, if I remember correctly, this summary trial is trying only a portion of the case, based on the current Can/US tax treaty. This has not been trying other parts which fall under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I believe that portion will be tried sometime in 2016. I believe the summary trial was an attempt to try a small portion quickly, to try to stop the data flow to the IRS before it began.
@PierreD “Can anyone see a difference between this and common mugging?”
Roy Berg already addressed your question. A year or so ago this blog earned him the nickname “Roy the Mugger” at Brock.
http://www.moodysgartner.com/fatca-in-canada-is-the-intergovernmental-agreement-a-good-deal/
@Barbara,
I hope this helps to clear things up for you. Stephen had posted some information and links explaining what a summary trial meant. But that was sometime back and it is hard to find that post now.
As you are aware a year ago, we filed our claim on many grounds but the highlights of that were the Charter arguments.
Knowing that case would take a long time to be heard and scheduled ( hasn’t been yet) and knowing we were soon facing the Sept. 30 deadline of having the CRA turn over our private banking information etc to the USA via the IRS, we made a decision which we felt was important to preserve the sanctity, if you will, or our financial information and breach of our rights.
And that decision was to file for a summary trial asap. The court gave us a two day hearing. You are correct, summary trials proceed on affidavit evidence and cross emanations and not oral testimony of witnesses.
We are far from the end. When this judge renders his decision, it will be appealed by the side whose position was not upheld.
And our fund raising needs to continue of course.
Hope that helps.
And now, I truly am off to bed.
@calgary411
I was just about to send the same wishes to my dear friend ct. May the Judge come through for your family on 9/13. Never want to hear my MP (who snickered at your video) tell me to my face again “it’s the law” – he must have been coaching the government lawyers!! Another donation will be in the mail tomorrow ending in 13.
@The Mom
Deadline for the suppose flow of info is I think 30th of September… the flow has to be stopped first before a trial in regards to the Charter etc… Its like giving a gift… telling the person what it is… then have them open it up… what’s the point… they already know… once the info is released… the genie is out of the bottle…. then what… tell the US not to peak or share the info with every alphabet agencies including CRA? Yes, sir we got rid of the info… snicker… snicker… make sure u make multiple copies… wink… wink…
@ Dash…But why was Mr. Berg there ??? In what role? Why a conference room? And can anyone tell me if Mr. Wood was there?
@Ann
Mr. Wood wasn’t there.
But I’m confused myself as to Mr. Berg and why he was there. I just know he was granted a conference room of his own to retreat to and I wondered why.
The correct answer of those you offer, Barbara, is:
The main trial was already delayed by the Government of Canada because of the time they require to review of 100,000 plus documents, so this summary trial necessary.
From Stephen’s last update of the day…
and
From: https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/02/17/adcs-adsc-litigation-updates-key-actions-milestones-and-timeline-estimates/
It is likely, if we can raise the money, the first trial then an appeal by either party, the depending on that outcome, review before the Supreme Court of Canada — a long and expensive process. The August 4 and 5 trial is the start of litigation in Canada against the government signing an IGA with the US — and, hopefully, other countries of the world. As we know, there are also the legal suits starting in the US — one will be against CBT itself.
From John Richardson, today: https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/08/05/from-adcssovereignty-fatca-lawsuit-is-underway-thoughts-on-day-1-and-more/
@Ann #1
I think Mr Berg is a US lawyer beside being a vulture…. Guess he is there to coach the crown’s lawyers on US laws… Umm… did anyone tell him… he is in Canada… our laws were not created by Congress… no matter what our canadian gov’t says…
@PierreD
*Can anyone see a difference between this and common mugging?*
A common mugging… u lose what u have on u… This is a fully armed home invasion…. taking everything u have with the help of your tax dollars & done by our own gov’t who is suppose to protect one and all… not a select few….
OK. I think I understand. My information is that the $500,000 we are trying to raise was an “all in” package deal. Does the fact that we have added a summary trial mean that we will have to raise more than the $500,000?
Speculation? Might Mr. Berg et al have been called in to help in the emergency created for the Government’s lawyers from yesterday’s court proceeding in Vancouver — a hop, skip and a jump from their Calgary office (and they also have an office in Vancouver)?
Priceless Twitter Comment:
John Hanson @JohnXHanson 1h1 hour ago
http://ow.ly/Qybck Cdn gvt defends rights of a foreign gvt to enforce their laws in Cda against Cdn citizens. @CBCNews @CTVNews #FATCA
Thanks for the clarifications, everyone. I’ll echo No Name’s question just above, and ask whether this two-day trial is what the $500,000 paid for, and any appeal and full trial will start from a zero balance (and hence require possibly millions)?
In any case, another donation will be winging its way across the Pacific Ocean within a day.
@Calgary411 Hint noted:
JC,
There has been other reference at Brock — not to do with what is happening in Canada with ADCS-ADSC.
Vancouver trial… where I was. I don’t think John Richardson has posted anything from the final day of this trial (Aug 5 Wednesday). Wait for him. He had ecstatic comments at times today. I cannot predict what the judge says about Sept 13. I was there the whole two days trying to fight off sleep and reading all my unread magazines in between the interesting parts. The Crown defense guy was totally boring and kept on repeating points from his reading, and not actually answering the Judge’s questions. Our side is so much more interesting and I think the Judge knows that. Where was the “animal” he lives in Vancouver but bubblebustin thinks he will do something radical not allowed in a Court of Law.
I’m so glad you saw that, anne boleyn. Wouldn’t it be just the best ever?
…and another thanks to you for all of your donations and also to all the others who have announced further donations yesterday and today!!!!
Inch by inch could be mile by mile if we could only convince most *US-deemed US Persons Abroad* to join in the fight we have started for them and for their families / their children!!!
http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/
It appears that even the judge cannot get a straight answer from the crown. When asked if they would help collect US tax and penalties in Canada, they tried to snow the judge with their answer. I don’t think “that is a political question” is even an answer. I think the judge can see through their snowjob. The Us government will simply tell the bank(who they have control over) to guaranshee and impose the witholding tax on anyone that they claim owes US tax and penalties. Lets hope the judge really does get it….
@calgary411
That is certainly possible. I believe Berg’s colleagues, but not Berg himself, turned up on Tuesday. I guess the gov’t attorneys failure to stop the proceedings on Tuesday made it necessary for the Berg guys to bring in their boss for Wednesday.
Anyways it was amazing to be there! It was an opportunity to meet many Brockers for the first time along with plaintiff Gwen and attorney Joe Arvay. Plus it was good to in many cases put both a face and a real name to an online name. The atmosphere among Gwen and Ginny’s supporters was very positive and I believe the judge definitely took notice of the support they have.
As John in particular pointed out several times, this is still an early round in a very long fight. But it was definitely a good day for our side.
I’m so glad you and others were able to attend, Dash. Besides the good in Brockers able to meet each other (so wonderful – my dream!), your support in travelling to and sitting through two court days in Vancouver WAS noticed.
I agree with the awareness of you and John Richardson — a very long court battle that we all have to be braced for and continue to support — IF our goals are to be reached. August 4 and 5 was a very good START.
Thanks to the two donations from one of the tuned-in Australians that Stephen mentions this morning and those from others for helping make the over-due payment a bit smaller.
@Dash, I am looking in from afar and you were there.
I wonder if it helped the Judge to be able to see a bunch of “ordinary folks.”
And not just run of the mill “ordinary folks” rather “ordinary Canadian folks.”
I think we have had a PR problem in the past and I believe @Bubbles first mentioned it, that we are all rich jet setters with big boats drinking fine wine.
There was also the PR problem that those affected are actually American when the truth is Ginny and Gwen are no more “American” than the man in the moon.
Seriously this concept of “citizenship by the soil” is absurd!!!
Then to play gotcha after you get citizenship by the soil….more absurd……