UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
JC, Are you Canadian also? If not, maybe you don’t feel as passionately as I do about what the words ‘Canadian sovereignty?’ mean. Maybe getting rid of CBT fits higher up in your priority list than worrying about whether or not fighting American law within US courts is a Canadian sovereignty issue.
Focus oh People … focus ….. Let us focus please on the task at hand … it is still formidable …. there is much to try to overcome and much that might depend on the outcome of our current Charter Challenge Litigation … CBT CRS/GATCA and so on. Please let us not diffuse our efforts.
One marathon at a time.
NervousInvestor, There have been hints from from ADCS directly, that they are considering pursuing CBT within US courts simultaneously and ongoing with the FATCA IGA lawsuit here in Canada. If I have misinterpreted those hints – for example there was commentary yesterday within the body of this post regarding the raising of funds for a CBT lawsuit, which has since been removed – then someone please correct my misunderstanding. Otherwise, if I am correct in understanding that ACDC is indeed currently making plans to challenge CBT within US courts, then IMHO, if anyone is diffusing the efforts of the Canadian Charter Challenge, and needs to be reminded to focus on the task at hand, it is the ADCS, not the individuals here debating the appropriateness of taking on a CBT challenge by that organization.
Many non-Canadian Americans, including myself, have contributed money to ADCS for “defending Canada’s sovereignty from FATCA.”
There is NO reason whatsoever for ADCS affiliated people to not be involved in the preparation of and fundraising for a lawsuit against CBT. They are now seasoned veterans in the fight for “liberty and justice for all US persons abroad.”
I do agree that all funds raised for the ADCS lawsuit against FATCA should and MUST be used purely for only that lawsuit. However, there is NO valid reason why a lawsuit against CBT should not be initiated. If somebody does not want to contribute to it because they think the current ADCS suit against FATCA is sufficient, so be it. It is their prerogative.
CBT is the heart of the matter affecting ALL Non-Resident Americans. It is the dragon that must be slayed. The sooner we get on with it, the better off everyone will be.
I don’t see why any legal challenge against CBT needs to wait.
Not every US person on the planet negatively affected by CBT is an accidental American. Although I care very much that Canada remain sovereign and have made what I feel to be a significant contribution to the ADCS legal challenge, FATCA does not negatively affect me as it would others who are not tax compliant. The direct problems of CBT will end for many with the defeat of FATCA as long as they stay off the US’s radar, but not so for me and others like me.
Defeating CBT cuts the head off the snake, defeating FATCA only defangs it.
I’m more than ready to launch legal action against CBT. The taxation of US citizens in Canada does in fact present itself as a sovereignty issue with or without FATCA, and I don’t see how the fight against CBT can’t be included under ADCS’s umbrella, however I wonder if something so distinctly Canadian would be the most unifying for US persons around the world.
King of theRoad (and the several others who subsequently spoke calming words of wisdom): Thank you for saying the following: “This uncharacteristically acrimonious and unconstructive discussion will give comfort only to those who are hoping for the failure of the ADCS campaign. …..To all those who work so hard at ADCS and IBS to give any hope at all to so many millions of us (mostly unwitting) potential beneficiaries: i wish mainly to say thank you.”
Let’s get on with the task at hand before we start crossing bridges that may not even need to be built. Has everybody read the submissions to the Senate Finance Committee? Read and rejoice that we are speaking with such a loud and united voice in the halls of power! Focus on what we have already accomplished. We are being heard this month by the US Senate; and we will be heard by the Canadian government in court in August as a result of the funding efforts of the ADCS campaign. That is the point of what we do here.
I, too, send my deepest thanks to those tireless individuals who are leading this fundraising effort and, of course, to all those who have scraped together whatever they could to donate to this effort. We have a ways to go yet …. let’s get on with it!
@Walt re: “CBT is the heart of the matter affecting ALL NON-RESIDENT AMERICANS. It is the dragon that must be slayed. ”
Quite true, but WHO should be the dragon slayer representing “ALL NON-RESIDENT AMERICANS” – a non profit organization called the Alliance for the Defence of CANADIAN SOVEREIGNTY or perhaps an organization representing ALL NON-RESIDENT AMERICANS? Does it in fact even matter? – many here seem to think not, others like myself are not so sure.
@MuzzledNoMore, re: “Let’s get on with the task at hand before we start crossing bridges that may not even need to be built. ”
Sounds like a plan. Are we all straight on what exactly is the task at hand, and who is a part of what?
I just walked into Canadian Tire today and noticed they sell other items besides tires. I am pissed and will demand they remove all other products besides tires, or change their name immediately because I have nothing else to do.
@Barbara
I’ve contributed to the RO/Yue/Bopp effort in the past. Last summer, when both efforts were getting going, I made roughly equal donations to each effort.
However, RO was slow to get their website up–at one point I sent them a rather strongly worded private email about this–although they did eventually get their website up. Since then the visible progress has been–as you’ve noted–the naming of the first plaintiff. And–early–there was the preliminary opinion authored by Jim Bopp.
For all I know, there may be just as much going on behind the scenes w/RO as with Arvay and it is just that they can’t share it for some reason. However for the moment I’m definitely focusing my donation efforts on the Arvay action as that is where visible things are happening. If at some point RO seems to move things from the back to the front burner, I’ll definitely consider supporting the RO/Yue/Bopp action again.
I’m pretty sure that all of these people keep in touch, and–as I’ve said before–I suspect a strategic decision has been to only crowd fund one effort at a time because we don’t have the financial resources to fund more than one effort at a time. As such I suspect you won’t see a crowd funding effort for a second lawsuit–in any country and on any front–until we get the first one fully funded. And we are 80% of the way there on the first one but NOT 100% of the way there–so some of the debate on here is just a bit premature.
Hmmmm … 85 comments on our new fund raising thread already. Wish ADCS had $10 for every comment so far. That would almost take care of one day’s amount needed to reach the new goal.
Phil, is Canadian Tire a non-profit organization? Does it have as its purpose some lofty goal such as defending Canada’s Sovereignty?
I suggest you get on with your day and not get too “pissed” about not finding those tires you are looking for. Check out Walmart. I hear they are having some good spring sales in the automotive department.
Dash1729,
There are people on one of the other sites that say the Bopp law suit will be filed at some point in May. Hopefully that gets some press in the states.
@EmBee
Now that would be putting our money where our mouths are, wouldn’t it?
You have one of the most create minds I’ve ever had the pleasure of coming across. Thank you for keeping it interesting in the fundraising and other departments!
Some of you on Facebook will recall how Democrats Abroad sought to tarnish RO’s effort to repeal FATCA by bringing up the fact that Mr Bopp won the Citizens United case. It will be interesting to see how much further they’re willing to alienate Americans abroad when this thing heats up.
My mind is full of cobwebs I’m afraid, Bubblebustin — just like our basement that we’re about to attempt to declutter a bit. I wish I could crunch through complexity like badger does, for instance. I tend to sidestep … like now I’m thinking I’d rather go for a bike ride. 🙂
The Sovereignty Thermometer
Canadian Sovereignty
The ADCS : Alliance for the DEFENSE of CANADIAN SOVEREIGNTY
For those here who are questioning what, why and how please search the site for the relevant issues discussed in DETAIL for many months rather than attacks and arguments clearly generated from lack of background knowledge.
There is a LOT of background material here at IBS and at ADCS site and blog. Videos, comments, links, complete background on why we are here now.
Please do avail yourselves of the rich environment of educational material before attacking the process that is now in progress.
Progress we can actually see after four long years.
The kind of comments I am reading here don’t do anything for me at all.
One, it shows an argumentative mentality that is foreign to IBS and ADCS. We usually discuss here. Certainly disagree, but discuss.
Mainly because most of us have been through the wringer and have banded together for emotional support of the community at IBS and ADCS.
We bolster each other and encourage each other and support the incredibly able champions of our cause!
For me, I am disappointed with the tone of the kind of argumentative discussion that has popped up here just since the successful completion of our goal and the call for the last leg of our contribution journey together.
I find it disrespectful of those who champion and fight for us, for they fight for us where we cannot fight for ourselves.And they do so with sacrifice to their own personal lives and finances as well.
All we can do is contribute, support and pray for the successful engagement of our champions on the field of legal battle.
I find it disrespectful to everyone here who has been fighting for so long to see a successful conclusion to one of the most vicious attacks against personal freedom, liberty, privacy and sovereignty ever undertaken.
It must be fought and our champions are making progress and have advanced further than any others also fighting. Not that those efforts are not worthy , just that they got started later.
Our champions are professional and highly qualified and once knowing the background no one can deny they are world class champions. Their actions and dedication are second to none and they do not deserve the disrespect. They deserve our wholehearted support for they have earned it in every step they have taken will take on our behalf.
To put to rest – hopefully – the somewhat rather heated discussions here today at Brock, I suggest we all consider these wise words from Margaret Heffernan :
“For good ideas and true innovation, you need human interaction, conflict, argument, debate.”
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDE WE FALL…
Concerning Margaret Heffernan:
http://www.ted.com/talks/margaret_heffernan_the_dangers_of_willful_blindness
From the video:
“Ignorance is bliss, they say, but you can’t put up with things like this.”
From the video:
“Willful blindness is a legal concept which means, if there’s information that you could know and you should know but you somehow manage not to know, the law deems that you’re willfully blind. You have chosen not to know. There’s a lot of willful blindness around these days”
Watch the whole thing.
This much is true:
Fatca is the vermiculite contaminating the Canadian soil.
Perhaps if the Canadian Senate Finance Committee had seen something like this their decisions regarding approving the IGA might have gone differently?
I seriously doubt it , for no reasoned argument swayed them one iota.
Six GOOD and well presented amendments , all voted down. Reasoned arguments by the scholars of our day. Peter Hogg, Constitutional scholar. Allison Christians, Professor Cockfield. John Richardson. All highly qualified and professional. All reasoned and to the point.
And yet, my favourite was Lynne Swanson’s presentation! Well presented via video, sharp, quick and smarter than all the Conservative mps put together.
ALL of that and the many hundreds of letters from ordinary Canadians, up against a made up mind by the government helmed by that swiveling , smug, snide banker.
We do not need to be preached to, nor do we need needling and admonishment.
We all have questions and there is no problem with questions respectfully submitted.
If one notices, as far as able, answers are given immediately and answers are also here to be read through and learned from. Helpful links are provided and there is a general atmosphere of helpfulness and generous understanding of why we are all here.
However the tone of the criticism that has most recently emerged seems to me to be aimed more at creating doubt about the decisions being made and about the why’s and the when.
We are all here working together toward a goal that is enormously difficult. We are up against powers fighting against us with our own tax dollars.
Many of us have personal hardships not spoken of but must be bourne daily and yet still our sovereignty clan are full of good spirit and work together to further our goals and aims. We welcome all those of like mind and reject the intrusion of any poor and mean spirited attacks of any kind to anyone.
@FuriousAC re: “We welcome all those of like mind and reject the intrusion of any poor and mean spirited attacks of any kind to anyone. ”
Here hear! or is that Hear hear? Anyway, what a great reminder. I know I should sit on my hands more often than I do.
@Phil and JC, I forgive you both for calling me a ‘DA troll’. It’s actually kind of funny!
@FuriousAC re: the part about “welcoming those of like mind”, I think we also need to listen to opposing viewpoints with an open mind, keeping in mind the difference between what constitutes a valid argument versus an opinion.
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All I can say, is. Thank you. I was wondering if you guys were going to respond. I’ll go read what Mr. Richardson wrote and get back to you later. I need a break…lol.
I am ready to give big to CBT lawsuit anytime.