UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
Hey good luck with your court case. I am an 1st year Australian law student ,watching this court case with great interest, as the Australian Govt also sold Aussie/Americans down the FACTA river too. Does anyone know if you are victorious will a Canadian Verdict have persuasive precedence in Australia, given that we are British Common Law cousins ? Or should Aussie/Americans launch their own case ?
@Benedict Arnold
I am a layman and think that one of the Legal Eagles or at least a researcher would be better able to respond to you BUT … my experience in another Commonwealth country is that Commonwealth cases are certainly influential on judges in other Commonwealth countries … and, depending on the subject matter even Non Commonwealth cases can be influential when the law does not vary too much in basic principles … French Law not so much I think due to the fundamental differences with Common Law. Consider the concept of “Innocent until Proven Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt” [Common Law Jurisdictions] vs “Accused must PROVE their innocence” [French way I believe]
Consider present practice in the US where a person’s assets may be seized as a “Civil Forfeiture” on a technicality without even an accusation of a Crime being committed.
My humble opinion is that there SHOULD be a mirror image case (with tweaks for the Aussie environment) launched in Aussie … and every other country around the Globe.
Good Luck in your chosen Profession.
@Benedict Arnold
BTW – this affect ALL people everywhere. Even those with no US taint. Who do you think will pay the compliance costs for the Financial Industry and the Government of Australia ? Who will also have to give more info to Banks and so on even though they are NOT US Persons ? Do bad actors like ISIS target Brits, Aussies and others as well as US Persons ? How long till such information will leak out of Banks and Govt databases? What is an Aussie is working in say Aden or Syria or Lebanon or elsewhere …. will their personal data disclosed to banks, insurance companies etc find its way to unsavory characters?
The matter is even bigger than FATCA it is also CRS.
If the defendants are granted an adjournment, then the plaintiffs should be granted an injunction.
FATCA beng talked about by Australian Accountants
http://www.accountantsdaily.com.au/breaking-news/8394-facta-law-suit-to-have-implications-for-australian-firms?utm_content=bufferdc998&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
August 4th will be an important day on the US FATCA lawsuit front too.
https://www.facebook.com/republicansoverseas/posts/409466799237121
May the ADCS summary trial go ahead as scheduled and may the US FATCA effort get its preliminary injunction.
Hi all, especially those who plan to come to Vancouver next week for our court date – –
I’m coming out from southern Ontario leaving very early next Monday to attend whatever happens at the courts. If the defendants (our current government) bring forth a request for adjournment today or tomorrow – AND the judge rules in their favor – I’m still coming. One of the things I have been thinking about is what if this case IS adjourned this week or early on Tuesday? Rather than just being disappointed back in the hotel I’ve arranged, with lemons on my hands, would it be possible to lemonade???
By this I mean if the court case is put aside/postponed, rather than just heading home perhaps the issue could be taken to the streets on late Tuesday and/or Wednesday (signs and hand-outs and verbal encounter with the curious, as some Brockers have done in the past). While there would be no support or stated connection with ADCS, one long-term Brocker who also plans to attend in Vancouver has said we could stand with our visuals and handouts on the sidewalk near the Art Gallery there (reportedly a common site for protesters) to help raise awareness.
On our own, two does not much of a presence make. However, if there were others reading this message who ARE planning to come to Vancouver and might be interested in joining in this potential action, please let me know ASAP.
The court hearing absolutely takes precedence, and no other action would be taken if the hearing is not postponed. But in the event that attendees are turned out of the court by Tuesday morning, is there anyone out there interested in raising the visibility of this issue with a couple of other “Raging Granny” types???
(PS – – also feel free to let me know if this is a ridiculous or discomforting idea)
@ LM
Absolutely a great idea. I wish I could be there but I had to choose between travel and a donation … I chose the latter. (Also, our car is suffering from AC problems so we don’t drive far afield on hot days now.) Monday is a statutory holiday in BC, right?
Guys, I wish I could be there I really do……
This whole journey has been to hell and I pray that we are on the way out of hell……
When this is all done, however it all turns out, I want to come to Ontario and meet some of you in person maybe at an IBS luncheon.
Cheers
I agree with Marie. In my wannabee lawyer mind, if I were Arvay, I would argue to the judge that if he was to grant an adjournment he should also grant an injunction. Let the government then chose what they want to do…I am not worried about it thought. I hear Arvay is good.
Do I understand correctly that the Govt Lawyers forgot to or chose NOT to cross examine the Plaintiffs in the July 20 to 24 window ?
@LM
My own thoughts on attending which I’m currently planning to do:
I will come to Vancouver as long as there is expected to be a hearing. I’ll come for a hearing–even a five minute hearing–although I hope we do get the full 2 day hearing.
However if we find out for sure this week that the hearing is postponed, I won’t come because in that case I’d prefer to put my vacation days back in the bank with my employer so I can use them again at a later date when the hearing does happen.
So–in short–I’ll come for even a 5 minute hearing but I won’t come for no hearing at all.
As for handing out flyers, I’m interested in the idea, but I’m going to play it by ear. It will depend both on what happens in court and what consensus emerges in the group that actually turns up on the day in question.
Lately I’m making a little extra cash in a part time job, some of which I’m donating to the ADSC-ADCS effort. If I return home early, and have the day off from my main “day job”, I can use the time to make a bit more money and give a bit of it to ADSC-ADCS. If ADSC-ADCS hasn’t quite made its funding target for August, that’s another option I’ll be weighing. But I’ll stick around long enough to at least have lunch or dinner with folks 🙂
LM, I think your protest suggestion is a great idea, but disagree that “two does not much of a presence make. ” I don’t think you were a Brocker when this small protest took place: https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2013/09/10/brockers-protest-and-raise-awareness-of-fatca-at-flaherty-press-conference/
Just saw this about bank fees on the CBC:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bank-customer-satisfaction-waning-amid-high-fees-less-service-1.3173150
Couldn’t have anything to do with them passing FATCA costs on to the customers, could it?
@WhiteKat
Yes I remember that protest–it was not long after I first found out about IBS I think. Where did that protest take place? The post from back then says Ottawa but the photo looks more like the outskirts of a small town–was it in Ottawa proper or in a small town near Ottawa?
I also think @LM ‘s idea about a protest is a great idea. There are just way, way too many variables in play right now–what happens with the hearing, how others feel about things, and how things go financially over the next week–for me to feel ready to commit to personally get involved in a protest. But if others are ready to do that they absolutely should whether it turns out to be a small or big effort.
Whatever you end up doing regarding a Vancouver protest, whatever the size, you should see if you require a permit from the City of Vancouver — just in case, better to be prepared. You may just have to let someone know you’ll be doing such. I had to register with the City of Calgary Police Department for my and Outraged’s *protest* in Calgary and the person I spoke with suggested best places and places where we could not gather. Ours took place during the Conservative Convention. Every C-51 protest that I’ve been too lately has definitely had permits beforehand and also police presence.
A couple starting points:
http://vancouver.ca/streets-transportation/street-and-sidewalk-use-for-business-and-activities.aspx
http://vancouver.mediacoop.ca/blog/bineshii/15505
I have been in contact with Steven Kish suggesting that if the trial is canceled that some kind of meeting of Brockers can be held, he replied on Tuesday:
“I will try to arrange for something. Yes, would be nice to get
together. I hope all this is sorted out this week. Stephen”
Stephen J. Kish, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychiatry and Pharmacology,
University of Toronto,
@Dash1729 re: ” Where did that protest take place? The post from back then says Ottawa but the photo looks more like the outskirts of a small town–was it in Ottawa proper or in a small town near Ottawa?”
It was located in southern Ottawa on the outskirts, just up the street from where I lived at the time.
@LM, yeah, you might want to investigate the permit issue. We had one for the Parliament Hill Ottawa protest when about 12 of us got together.
@WhiteKat,
Thanks for your encouragement and, true, I was not yet involved with IBS when you had your small Ottawa protest, but I have seen pictures and mention of this. Thanks also to you and Calgary411 for the heads-up about getting a permit – – will check this out. If this action is undertaken, we’ll take pictures too!
I have a call in to the VPD, awaiting to hear what’s involved in holding a small protest gathering on the steps of Vancouver Art Gallery.
I’d personally go guerrilla especially if it’s only a few people, but I can understand how others wouldn’t want to 🙂
@Bubblebustin ! LOL I read your last post incorrectly … thought WHAT ! then shook my head and read it again …… first impressions had in fact deceived me ….. I THOUGHT that you said ” …. go Commando …..” in fact you said ” ….. go guerilla ……” ….. Gosh what a difference !?!
BTW Harper’s Hooligans have been live on Twitter this afternoon …. talking about October …. I wonder what that October event might be ? Election perhaps?
Hahaha, nervousinvestor.
No comment.
@Bubblebustin ….LOL The mind can play strange tricks on a person after staring at a PC screen all day trying to get it to do what you think that it ought to be doing. Good thing that I have not initiated the new Cortana electronic assistant ! I might have been exchanging choice words with her all day ….. wellll ….. maybe not really …… LOL
@LM, @Calgary411, @all,
Vancouver Police Department:
“The VPD respects your legal right to protest – NO permit necessary.”
@ Bubblebustin – – Well, that is encouraging news. Thanks for finding out.
Now, anyone else want to consider joining onto a respectful, information sharing “protest” in Vancouver if there is a court adjournment?