Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

Are expats America’s laziest voters?

“Even in era of emailed ballots, corralling far-flung voters proves troublesome.”

Global Post, a news feeder organization for PBS and NPR ran a story with this headline  a couple days ago that caught my attention.

BANGKOK, Thailand — There is no variety of American voter quite so unreliable as expatriates. They vote far less frequently than even teenagers and high-school dropouts. When it comes to campaign contributions, they donate less than 1 percent of the total haul.

I thought it rated at least a short comment. There are only 3.  Maybe some of you will think so too.  Maybe you can explain why you are sooo lazy, or not! 🙂

74 thoughts on “Are expats America’s laziest voters?

  1. @badger – The 2006 Canadian census looked at citizenship, including people who were dual citizens with Canada or somewhere else, or had dual (or multiple) citizenships with countries other than Canada. All this data can be broken down regionally, probably as far as the tract level. The numbers are from the long-form census (which 20% or so respondents are given) and scaled up, but they should be reliable enough as far as identifying broad patterns goes.  

  2. @shadowraider

    I found a Mexico US tax blog run by a lawyer in the US, but gets little in the way of outside comments. It really is strange the lack of concerned Mexican-US citizens, considering the large phenomenon of Mexicans in the US sending money to ‘foreign’ accounts in Mexico.

    http://us-mexicantax.blogspot.ca/

  3. Canadian article out of Windsor, urging us to vote in the US election – in order to aid Canada’s interests re the Detroit/Windsor bridge and control of this major N/American crossing. Does not of course acknowledge any of the potential complications of asserting the right to vote in the US election – and the existence of draconian US extraterritorial taxation and associated pitfalls.

    http://www2.canada.com/windsorstar/news/editorial/story.html?id=64ded1ef-f8d0-46c7-b8aa-178d65135613

  4. Isn’t it time for the Monty Python US census count video?

    I find the FATCA silence in Mexico intriguing in that it is potentially quite explosive because of the sheer number of US-Mexicans estimated to be living in the US or Mexico. Mexican workers in the US apparently send $21B a year to their families in Mexico. I imagine the ‘capital flight’ from the US to certain Caribbean nations would be significant also.

    Also, in  a letter to the IRS and Treasury, the Asociación de Bancos de México (Mexican Bankers Assn) expressed concern about FATCA’s compliance burden on Mexican banks that handle the hundreds of thousands of trusts that qualify as FFI’s, and Mexican laws that prohibit the seizure of funds and closure of accounts held by recalcitrant customers.

    http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-UnitedStates/Local%20Assets/Documents/Tax/us_tax_Asociación_de_Bancos_de_México_Intermediarios_Bursáiles_073012.pdf

    If US-Mexicans aren’t complaining about FATCA because they’re too laid back, they’ll soon find that a manana attitude is not a good one to have in association with FATCA.

  5. @shadowraider…

    I see this Mexican tax blog, as not generated any comments on the subject as of June 26th. 

    IRS Announces Efforts to Help U.S. Citizens in Mexico, Including Dual Citizens and Those with Foreign Retirement Plans

    I am also puzzled by the lack of comments or involvement or concern U.S, Citizens in Mexico. I do believe, without any evidence, that most are retirees that keep their money in the US, or exchange funds at local money exchanges.  Probably there is a big cash economy that is not in banks.  

    Also, illegal immigrants, sending money home to Mexico are not going to turn themselves in to any the IRS OVDI.  What will be interesting to see is what happens to those in Mexico who keep money in the States, when U.S. Banks start turning their details over to the IRS.  

    Then there are all the dual citizens, accidental or otherwise, living in Mexico probably have no idea about this stupid citizenship taxation.  If Mexico signs up for an IGA, they are about to find out.  One thing for certain.  FATCA will create more liars when it comes to U.S. indices. 

  6. *This situation in Bermuda may be interesting too.  It is said that up to 30% of its population may be “US person”:

    The number of US citizens in Bermuda is unknown. Jennifer Patterson, of Patterson Partners, a firm that provides financial planning advice to dual nationality Bermudians and Bermudians with US connections, believes as many as a third of Bermuda’s population could be US persons. That underlines the scale of the banks’ task ahead
    in finding and listing them all for the IRS.

    US citizens resident overseas have been required to report their US bank accounts and file tax returns for many years, but only in recent times has the IRS been really clamping down on compliance, says Martha Harris Myron, also of Patterson Partners.
    http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20121012/BUSINESS/710129955

  7. “It really is strange the lack of concerned Mexican-US citizens,
    considering the large phenomenon of Mexicans in the US sending money to
    ‘foreign’ accounts in Mexico.”

    There is an attitude of entitlement by minorities of color, largely fostered by the social marxists and multiculturalists of the left.  They are not afraid because they know that they are the foot soldiers of the left.  And they also know that the worst thing that the left would allow to happen to them would  be their expulsion from the US.

    The real question is:  What proportion of dark skinned Mexican “tax cheats” would support a leftist tax-jihad against “rich white tax cheat” expats?  I would bet the vast majority.   Nothing to see here, slave.

  8. *There was a day when Mexican banks attracted many US depositors because their savings accounts in US dollars paid better interest than was available in the US.. Government spending got way out of control, there was a foreign exchange crisis his government instituted strict exchange controls and converted all of these dollar accounts to pesos, and there were massive devlauations of the peso. The president then was Luis Portillo. 

    Dollars were no longer freely available  and the former dollar account values dropped to fraction of their prior value. This crisis lasted for a short time as the next president, Miguel de la Madrid, took actions to get the economic situation back under control and I am not aware if dollar accounts in Mexican banks have ever been reinstitutued.  I just have not followed it. 

  9. here we go again… 

    another dark skinned people rant.

    i like this forum, but i’ve gone from reading it once a day and every comment to once or twice a week and very few of the comments.  i often find confed’s perspectives helpful, but this fringe talk obsession with race makes the whole site feel sleazy and shuts down serious discussion about USPA’s and the very real threats from the US Congress and government that are visited upon us.

  10. @SwissPinoy

    Thanks for the link to that story.  I see Anne Hornung-Soukup is getting excellent coverage as a representative of ACA.  This is good. I knew she was vacationing there, but didn’t realize she was also contracting the local press.  GREAT!

  11. @Just Me

    ” What will be interesting to see is what happens to those in Mexico who
    keep money in the States, when U.S. Banks start turning their details
    over to the IRS.”

    I  would presume  the IRS already gets  any information  the  US banks have.  It’s the “foreign” bank accounts that they don’t know about and can’t control, that  annoys them.  The big question  might be about what Mexico  thinks about the Mexicans who keep their money in (foreign) American banks,  if the US  ever gets their act together enough  to  provide that information to Mexico.

  12. @SP:  I just finished reading that article but in English on Zero Hedge.

    The War on Offshore

    Part and parcel of this trend is the War on Offshore, epitomized by
    new and tough double-taxation treaties between the UK and Switzerland
    and Germany and Switzerland. You are naïve if you think that attacks on
    Swiss banking and on other ‘offshore’ banking destinations are only
    aimed at tax-dodgers.
     An important side effect of these campaigns is
    this: it gets ever more cumbersome for citizens from these countries to
    conduct their private banking business in Switzerland and other
    countries, and ever more expensive and risky for Swiss and other banks
    to service these clients. For those of us who are tax-honest but prefer
    to have our assets diversified politically, and who are attracted to
    certain banking and legal traditions and a deeper commitment to private
    property rights in places such as Switzerland, banking away from our
    home country gets more difficult. This is intentional I believe.

    The United States of America have taken this strategy to its logical
    extreme. The concept of global taxation for all Americans, regardless
    where they live, coupled with aggressive litigation and threat of
    reprisal against foreign financial institutions that may – deliberately
    or inadvertently – assist Americans in lowering their tax burden, have
    made it very expensive and even risky for many banks to deal with
    American citizens, or even with holders of US green cards or holders of
    US social security numbers. Americans will find it difficult to open
    bank accounts in certain countries. This is certainly the case for
    Switzerland but a friend of mine even struggled obtaining full banking
    services in Singapore. I know of private banks in the UK that have
    terminated banking relationships with US citizens, even when they were
    longstanding clients. All of this is going to get worse next year when
    FATCA becomes effective – the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, by
    which the entire global financial system will become the extended arm of
    the US Internal Revenue System. US citizens are subject to de facto
    capital controls. I believe this is only a precursor to real capital
    controls being implemented in the not too distant future.

    When Johann Wolfgang von Goethe wrote that “none are more hopelessly
    enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free”
    he anticipated
    the modern USA.

    And to round it all off, there is the War on Cash. In many European countries there are now legal limits

    Goethe could have been writing about the majority of readers at IBS who keep getting kicked in the ass by the welfare state but continually blame it only on the FATCA running shoes.

  13. *@shadowraider, the Mexican census probably did not count the Mexicans born in Mexico to a US parent, or the number would be much, much higher.  I have an old chart published by the State Department in 1999 which estimated the number of US citizens resident in Mexico as 1,036,300.  The world total of US citizens living abroad back then was estimated at 4 million.  The number for Canada was estimated at 687,700. At time there were also and additional 550,000 US military personnel stationed abroad. This latter number, provided by the Pentagon, was probably quite accurate.

    This chart is a large color map of the world with the estimated number of US citizens printed on the map inside the borders of each country.

    About that time the State Deparment discontinued publishing information on its estimates of US citizens living abroad.  I recall hearing that it realized that the information was just an educated guess and probably not very accurate.

  14. @CanuckDoc;

    This explains the refusal of Timothy Geithner, and the US to extend to Mexico, what they are demanding of the entire rest of the world under FATCA, and what they are demanding of all US citizens living outside the US – but refuse to provide themselves:

    News Analysis: How the U.S. Is a Tax Haven for Mexico’s Wealthy
    by Robert Goulder

    …”Why does Congress tolerate de facto bank secrecy? The answer is simple:
    Our banks need the money
    . If you think that excuse sounds familiar,
    you’re correct. It’s the same response Swiss bank authorities threw back
    at U.S. officials during the recent UBS negotiations.”…

    Mexican officials want not only to run the drug cartels out of town, but also to tax them.

    Drug traffickers are also money launderers and tax evaders. It’s
    in their job description. You can’t really declare a few million pesos
    of unexplained income on your tax return and list “drug lord” as your
    occupation. Besides, the moral threshold that’s crossed by falsifying
    tax returns is nothing for people who regularly bribe police, kidnap
    judges, and slit the throats of informants.

    We’re talking lots of money here. The illegal drug trade between
    Mexico and the United States is a multibillion-dollar business. If
    Mexico could tax a fraction of those earnings, it would represent a huge
    revenue haul. Therein lies the connection to the letter on Geithner’s
    desk.
    Carstens has a pretty good idea where the cartels are keeping
    their fortune, and it ain’t Tijuana.

    Mexican drug bosses aren’t fools. They won’t walk down the street
    of some border town carrying a sack of cash and try to open an account
    at the local bank. They will search for a welcoming host country where
    they can safely park their ill-gotten gains without attracting much
    attention. The ideal host jurisdiction is a place where their money: (1)
    won’t be taxed, (2) won’t be reported to the host country tax
    authorities, and (3) won’t be reported to Mexican tax authorities.

    Such a place exists. It’s called San Diego, which the Geneva daily newspaper Le Temps
    recently characterized as one of the world’s most successful tax havens
    given its proximity to the Mexican border and popularity with Mexican
    NRA
    s. (Le Temps, “Les Etats-Unis Servent de Paradis Fiscal aux
    Capitaux Mexicain,” July 23, 2009, p. 15.) San Diego, of course, is only
    a symbol of the problem. The same de facto bank secrecy exists in
    Miami, Charlotte, New York, or any U.S. town where there’s a bank open
    for business.
    “……

    ….”Not only does U.S. bank secrecy exist, it’s
    thriving. The evidence above reveals U.S. bank secrecy to be a smashing
    success. Eliminate it, and America will suffer. Our banks will lose
    profits; our workers will lose jobs
    .

    In terms of basic economics, those claims are difficult to rebut.
    A troubling dissonance arises only because rational minds are unable to
    square this reality with the policies Washington embraced in the recent
    UBS agreement.

    Bear in mind that U.S. and Swiss banks are rivals that compete to
    attract foreign capital from global markets
    . That capital is highly
    mobile and can be transferred across continents and time zones with just
    a few clicks of a mouse. The competition is a zero-sum game; the more
    capital that can be driven out of Zurich, the more there is for U.S.
    banks to sponge up.

    To the neutral observer it might seem that America’s opposition
    to bank secrecy is highly selective
    . Perhaps we object only when it’s
    our tax base that’s being eroded.

    Geithner now must decide whether Treasury spoke with a forked
    tongue in the United States’ showdown with the Swiss. Mexico City is
    awaiting a response
    .”………..

    The whole article is really worth a read.  It underscores the hypocrisy of the US, and particularly that of Geithner. He preaches one thing and does another. And the US banks benefit coming and going – using the might of the US and IRS to deter US citizens from banking outside the US, yet profiting from providing financial secrecy to the citizens of other countries. The anti-moneylaundering piffle spouted by the IRS and Treasury is just a smokescreen for favouring US banks, and rifling through the assets of those who live outside the US.

    Intriguingly, this article mentions a meeting with Harper of Canada:

    ….”Little has changed under the Obama administration, which favors a
    continuation of the Mérida Initiative. On August 9 President Obama met
    with Calderón and Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper in Guadalajara,
    Mexico, to discuss a variety of economic and security issues.
    There’s
    no indication that Carstens’s February 9 letter to Geithner was
    discussed at that minisummit
    .”…..

    For the text of the letter Mexico sent to Geither in 2009, see:

    Carstens (Mexico) Letter Requesting Automatic Exchange of faculty.law.wayne.edu/tad/Documents/…/mexicocarstens_letter.pdf

  15. *Tax free interest earnings for non-resident foreign nationals is a marketing tool for US banks to attract foreign deposits. Currently they don’t pay much interest, but the funds are safely deposited with these banks thus making the US one of the largest tax havens in the world for non-Americans who are not residents of the US.

    Just contemplate how much tax revenue is lost because the IRS does not collect taxes on the US earnings of Mexican Drug Lords.  Ilegal income is subject to US taxation in the same way that legal income is taxed, but whether the cash remains in US bank accounts or is taken across a border to a different country; either way it evades US taxes.    I would venture to guess, not knowing the amounts involved, that the tax revenue loss is hundreds or thousands of times greater than the tax revenue generated by US persons living and working outside of the US.

    Since for the Mexican Drug Lords is is income from sources outside of Mexico they could claim a foreign tax credit against their Mexican tax obligation if they paid US tax on this income.  But that most assuredly don’t do that and don’t pay taxes to either nation.

  16. Wouldn’t the problem be fixed or at least diminished if banks of all countries would just withdraw tax on interest bearing accounts, regardless of the country of origin of the account holder?

  17. *@Christopie, unquestionably it would be much simpler.  That is the basic principle of territorial taxation in its purest form and what is advocated by Dan Mitchell of the Cato Institute.

    Each country would tax the income earned within its borders. Period. Persons would be taxed where they live on income from sources within their country of residence only.  Income from sources outside of that country would be taxed only by the country where is was earned or otherwise received.  No foreign income reporting, no foreign tax credits.

    Utterly simple It sure makes a lot of sense to me.  About the only thing simpler is the Fair Tax where taxation is on consumption rather than on income.

  18. @zuludog:

    “this fringe talk obsession with race makes the whole site feel sleazy
    and shuts down serious discussion about USPA’s and the very real threats
    from the US Congress and government that are visited upon us.”

    It is you who have been conditioned to feel “sleazy” whenever someone dares to go out on a limb and present ideas and make statements that contradict your PC programming.  If you haven’t figured out, I do it deliberately to try to make people like you think outside of the very narrow box that the elites running your education system have placed you.  Your typical liberal has been programmed to turn off their brain whenever they hear certain dog whistles like anything to do with race, gays, feminists, islam, climate denial, or even expat tax cheats like you.

    Here is a recent “fringe” and “sleazy” discovery that sheds new light on what has been happening around us:

    Obama’s ring: ‘There is no god but Allah’
    He’s worn band on wedding-ring finger since before he met Michelle

    Even John McCain came out strongly against anyone using Obama’s middle name, Hussein, during the 2008 elections.  I think “fringe” and “sleazy” were precisely the kind of adjective he used.  So the blatant liar and fraud Obama was allowed to get elected without any vetting because of PC dog whistles from people like you.  And now you complain about FATCA and other “threats from US congress and the US government” that precisely these PC tax eaters have implemented.    Selberschuld, slave.

  19. @Canuck Doc, badger, Roger Conklin,

    Thanks for all the commentary on “forked tongue” of US in providing tax haven for Mexican source “illegal monies” banked in US /

    “profiting from providing financial secrecy to the citizens of other countries. The anti-moneylaundering piffle spouted by the IRS and Treasury is just a smokescreen for favouring US banks, and rifling through the assets of those who live outside the US.”

  20. http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/10/13/suncor-ceo-pipelines-sovereignty_n_1963302.html

    …George (Rick George, former Suncor CEO), who holds both Canadian and U.S. citizenship, is eligible to vote in the upcoming presidential election, but says “I don’t exercise that right.”
    Though George says he tends to lean Republican, he expressed no strong preference for either Mitt Romney or Barack Obama.
    No matter who wins, George said he wants to see more predictability in U.S. policies so that businesses big and small are more comfortable spending their money.
    “The most important thing I think is that somehow Washington D.C. changes out of this acrimonious kind of rhetoric. I don’t think it’s doing anyone any good.”
    A proposal by Calgary-based pipeline giant TransCanada Corp. (TSX:TRP) to ship Canadian crude to U.S. refiners has been one of the bigger U.S. political flashpoints. After a string of delays, the U.S. State Department is expected to make a decision on the Keystone XL pipeline early next year.
    In the book, George said he considers Keystone XL to be a “double-edged sword” for Canada.
    “While it will boost this country’s crude oil sales to the United States, it also will bind Canada more tightly to the U.S. market. This prospect brings some inherent dangers with it, yet I rarely heard that discussed in the exchanges between the two sides.”

  21. Further to Mexico Request to US for Bank Account Information:
    http://www.globalbusinesslawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/PreslanK.pdf

    TURNABOUT IS FAIR PLAY: THE U.S. RESPONSE TO MEXICO’S REQUEST FOR BANK ACCOUNT INFORMATION
    KEVIN PRESLAN, Global Business Law Review

    Once again, while it may appear that the logical thing for the United States to do would be to fully comply with Mexico’s request, there are issues with that argument, as well. The United States has little to gain from exchanging this information on a regular basis.

    While Mexico is willing to offer reciprocity to the United States, this offer has minimal appeal. U.S. taxpayers are not depositing their money in Mexican banks.

    These U.S. taxpayers can find safer and more secure banks than Mexican banks that have stricter bank secrecy laws because those looking to evade taxes on these funds want their money to stay safe and away from taxes. History, until recently, has shown that Switzerland is an example of such a safe location. While Switzerland was willing to give in to the United State’s request for bank account information, it does not appear that the United States is ready to do the same for Mexico.

    The United States also has to worry about other countries making the same request that Mexico has made from it. While most regard Canada to be the exception to the rule due to the two countries’ close relationship, if the United States complies with Mexico as well, countries across the world will begin to inquire too.

    Compliance would cause severe consequences for the U.S. banking sector, as explained above.

    So what will the United States do? While that remains to be seen, there are several possible routes the United States can go. Even though all of these
    possible solutions have significant consequences, the United States must a find a solution that is beneficial to sectors in both countries.

    FATCA?

    … and another interesting read: http://treasureislands.org/tax-haven-usa-attracts-over-3-trillion-in-foreign-dirty-money/

  22. @zuludogm, I echo @nobledreamer, hope you continue here. Agree wholeheartedly with you  – feel I now need to add a caveat at the same time as recommending IBS to potential readers I know.

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