We are now preparing for the 2016 FATCA IGA Charter trial in Canada Federal Court

2,207 thoughts on “We are now preparing for the 2016 FATCA IGA Charter trial in Canada Federal Court”

1. Just posted this re the denial/deflection of Lynne’s letter to the Privacy Commissioner Therrien
   https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/08/22/privay-commissioners-information-office-says-dont-bug-us-in-disappointing-response-to-questions-about-canadian-privacy-rights/comment-page-1/#comment-6408819

2. @EmBee & badger

   I have contacted her (Sophie in t’Veld) before and never received a response.

   @nervous investor
   I am also sorry to hear of your loss. Looked like quite a nasty accident. Seems so unfair…

   @Furious AC

   I remember exactly the opposite response from Madame Bernier

   http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6601885&Language=E&Mode=1

   Mr. Murray Rankin:
   Therefore, what that means, in lay terms, is that if the intergovernmental agreement or the provisions of Bill C-31 are in conflict with the Privacy Act, the Privacy Act would prevail.
   [Expand]
   Ms. Chantal Bernier:
   That would be my view, certainly.

   Of course it doesn’t really matter as it appears she may not have understood that C-31 allowed that the IGA would override any CDN Act that interferred with implementation of FATCA. Nathan Cullen & Prof. Cockfield outlined many Acts the IGA overrides….I will find them and list again………….

3. Tricia,

   Nathan Cullen & Prof. Cockfield outlined many Acts the IGA overrides…

   They are also in the compilation video in my comment here: https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/05/03/99929-needed-in-94-more-days-to-make-the-100000-august-4-2015-payment-for-canadian-fatca-iga-lawsuit-il-nous-reste-99929-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/comment-page-73/#comment-6408666

   15:25 is where Nathan Cullen says it like it is. [How I wish Nathan Cullen were the NDP Party Leader I could help vote for.]

   I don’t know how many times I have listened and will re-listen to this telling compilation of testimony at these Senate Finance Committee meetings regarding omnibus Budget Bill C-31 (2014). If any reader hasn’t, please do to realize the full danger of another Canadian majority Conservative government.

4. Here is what I hear in my head endlessly, the very last section. I am not trying to post the video right now but the evidence, so the wording is very clear and can be easily referenced.This follows an extremely frustrating section where Mr. Cullen has tried to get clarification on whether or not the Justice Department’s guidance on the constitutionality of overriding the Privacy Act was sought as well as, what % of chance would there be that the legislation would provoke a Charter Challenge.

   from May 29, 2014
   http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?DocId=6630513&Language=E&Mode=1

   Mr. Nathan Cullen:

   Okay, so it’s all well and good to say, “We went to Justice and we asked them whether this will survive a charter challenge” and not discuss what the survival rate was actually like. It’s like saying you got the car tested and it tested out fine, but you only looked at 5% of the car. Yes, you got your car tested, but you got it tested badly.
   Our question around this is…. What’s unfortunate about this, this process that we’re in, is the Government of Canada is so likely to end up in court under this part of the tax treaty that they’re signing with the U.S. and it’s going to cost the Canadian taxpayer so many millions of dollars and untold number of Canadians the financial grief of going through this. It’s like this predictable problem that the government’s creating for itself.
   Sorry, Chair, but it’s ultimately frustrating that all of these things hang in confidence. If it had a good test of its charter-proofness, certainly the government would be proud of it and it’s hiding behind the confidentiality screen.
   All this does, Chair, is it enshrines into the act itself what Mr. Allen asked Mr. Ernewein with respect to what happens in other practices and other tax treaties.

   Why the government wouldn’t vote to clarify that the Charter of Rights, the Bill of Rights, the Human Rights Act, the Privacy Act, the Official Languages Act, and the Access to Information Act will supersede anything we sign in this tax treaty is beyond me. If it’s redundant, then so be it. Let’s have a redundant aspect of a legislative bill. I’m stunned that something so obvious can’t be accepted into law.

5. Absolutely, Tricia!! Nathan Cullen’s incredulity is ours.

6. The more light that’s shone on this rotten bit of business, the worse it’s going to look to Canadians and the entire world. Just like CBT itself, the only thing it has going for it is that no one knows about it. Shine away. Let their own words hang them.

7. In addition to Cullen’s list, Cockfield includes PIPEDA, the Personal Information Protection Electronic Documents Act & the Access to Basic Banking Services Regulations.

   Oh no, oh no, oh no……………..
   This is just sick but as I go back and re-read, I realize how many times I have watched these three proceedings (May 13, May 14 and May 29, 2014). Not only how many times but that I actually enjoy watching them because the learning curve is endless. For me, it is like the being asked what your favourite movies are. How bloody sick is that?

   Actually I am glad is has come up because I have always intended to go back and save particular bits of info esp Prof. Cockfield’s emphasis on what is different in terms of the info being exchanged. I want to check my notes also and see if that was emphasized at the Summary Trial. It certainly makes a difference.

   For the life of me, I cannot understand why the Harper govt insisted on passing the IGA so quickly. As brought forward by John Richardson, Alison & Prof Cockfield- we were in compliance by signing. There was PLENTY of time to fine-tune aspects.Scott Brison emphasized how “we could have negotiated a better IGA given our relationship with the Americans.” What on earth was the necessity of ramming that through?

   I also see Prof Cockfield mentioned 2 other appearances before the Committee which I am going to look up. There were also Senate Finance Meetings (for sure Cockfield and Berg).

   And last but not least, there was at least one meeting of the Senate Finance Committee (CDN) where FATCA was discussed and the viewpoint was totally negative/shouldn’t apply here.

8. @Tricia:
   So glad you posted the transcript re testimony.
   And correcting my mistake!

9. @FuriousAC

   no, in a way, its not actually a mistake. Ms. Bernier just presumed something she should not have. The effect is actually the same….

10. Question to all regarding the whole Queen/Royal Assent issues………

    While I can respect that there is a historical tradition, I still have always found the emphasis on the Royal Family to be a bunch of hooey in this day in age. It annoys me no end that every time one o fthem comes here, WE pay for it. Considering their wealth, that is utterly ridiculous and immoral since many Canadians have to go to food banks to eat.

    Calgary411 says:

    More than 15 million adult Canadians (and likely their kids as well), a clear majority, want to retire the monarchy and change to a democratically chosen Canadian Governor General and Lieutenant Governors. Many more, about 23 million adult Canadians (84% of voters), want clear, written, enforceable rules (as most countries have) to stop the abuse of powers by the Prime Minister and premiers — abuses that the appointed Governor General, and provincial Lieutenant Governors, have been unable to stop in recent decades.

    How could this happen? What’s the relationship here between our Constitution and all this silly nonsense? And if it were achieved, would it prevent the Parliament being dissolved at the whim/political advantage of someone as immoral as PMSH?

11. or: http://democracywatch.ca/campaigns/democratichead/ says.

    calgary411 signed.

    I agree with you, Tricia. Pomp and ceremony that we, Canadian taxpayers, cannot afford but pay for. To me, it belongs in the history books. (Perhaps coming from the US, I don’t fully appreciate what the British monarchy means to some? I do have some in-law’s and former work friends who do love it all and I’ve always just bitten my tongue as it wasn’t mine to fully understand; mine a different history than theirs. My allegiance, though, is to Canada, want to be one to hold on to its sovereignty and its values that now, to me, seem to be slipping away.)

12. @NativeCanadian: “Now, if Canadian’s data was breached in the USA, where in the IGA does it say how we would be reimbursed for damages?”

    That’s a great question, isn’t it? Especially since the data is not only vulnerable to hackers, but also to the NSA and any other American who gets carte blanche to view it since of course, we foreigners cannot be trusted.

    I HOPE, HOPE, HOPE that Justice Martineau gets this point and protects our financial accounts from being handed over to the invasive snoops across the border. I also admire you for letting Harper know FATCA hurt you and that we aren’t a myth! Good for you!

    @nervousinvestor, So sorry to hear of the awful tragedy that stole the life of your close friend. What a shock that must be for you and others dear to this man!

13. Is it just me, or do others have the same thought. Did the USA negotiators use serious threats (stick) against our government officials (meaning threats of harm to themselves or families, mafia style) or offer kickbacks directly to our government officials (carrot) during these so called “negotiations” over FATCA. Like really now, who the hell in their right mind would have gone along with this shit other than complete roll-over wimps? As much as I dislike the Cons, I can’t believe there’s not more to this story.

14. That is a cute pic of Ginny and her sisters. But would not be allowed in a court of law. Anecdotally, she is the only one wearing boots she learned early the attitude to take.

15. @Tricia, re; “..I have contacted her (Sophie in t’Veld) before and never received a response..”. Thanks for trying. Perhaps things get read even if not responded to, so perhaps not a waste in the end.

    Perhaps someone who is actually an EU citizen/EU resident reading here could try. I had been hoping that eventually either someone from the Netherlands, or someone in the EU might use the information to contact her.

    I know that she was helpful to Victoria (an EU resident) when she was trying to attend the ‘EU Public Hearing on FATCA’ on May 28 in Bruxelles ( video here http://www.europarl.europa.eu/ep-live/en/committees/video?event=20130528-1530-COMMITTEE-ECON )
    see description at;
    http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/2013/05/eu-public-hearing-on-fatca.html
    and
    http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.ca/2013/05/a-day-at-european-parliament-in-brussels.html
    

16. @badger

    We have made attempts to link expats in different countries in the hopes they might be able to get something going in their area…….belgium was one such place and I know one person is attempting to launch a suit there………there is also talk of a possible one in France or the EU court. But I haven’t heard enough to suggest anything like that is imminent nor anything more than a vague set of plans……..at any rate, I know folks there are aware of her and she has been discused among the various expat FB groups and the most recent news about the response to S. in ‘t Veld’s request has also been posted on those groups……….

17. @kermitzii

    Those boots were made for walkin’
    and that’s just what they’ll do
    One of these days those Boot’s, Steve,
    will walk all over you

18. calgary411

    Thanks for the democracywatch link. Signed and tweeted and will push tweeting toward twitter contacts focussed on defeating Harper.There are some very determined folks out there!

19. Thanks, Tricia.

    That Democracy Watch link comes from Sid’s comment: https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/05/03/99929-needed-in-94-more-days-to-make-the-100000-august-4-2015-payment-for-canadian-fatca-iga-lawsuit-il-nous-reste-99929-a-ramasser-pour-notre-poursuite-judiciaire/comment-page-73/#comment-6408598. Sid has been communicating here for some time about the work they’ve done — http://democracywatch.ca/. Hope other Canadians check out their site and work.

    Democracy Watch is a national non-profit, non-partisan organization, and Canada’s leading citizen group advocating democratic reform, government accountability and corporate responsibility.

    Democracy Watch is the most effective and successful national citizen advocacy group in Canada at winning systemic changes to key laws since it opened its doors in fall 1993 – it has won more than 110 changes to federal and provincial good government and corporate responsibility laws, many of which are world-leading.

    Democracy Watch’s website is the top citizen advocacy group website listed when you search the Internet using Google.ca and the search words “democracy” or “government ethics” or “money in politics” or “open government” or “honesty in politics” or “bank accountability” or “corporate responsibility”.

20. Here is part of the argument that US Company “Netflix” used in Canada’s request for private confidential data to Canadian Authorities: Fight over confidential data

    During the hearings, CRTC chairman Jean-Pierre Blais became agitated when Wright refused a direct request to provide confidential subscriber information.

    Wright said Netflix was concerned that private corporate information submitted to the commission might later find its way into the public sphere, which could make the service vulnerable to exploitation by its competitors. This is amazing. A US company refuses to turn over data on Canadians to Canada for the same reasons we should not be sending our personal data to the USA. The full article can be found here http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/netflix-refuses-crtc-demand-to-hand-over-subscriber-data-1.2774921

21. “Somehow, I can’t work up sympathy for US citizens [sic] who choose to live or put their money in foreign countries.”

    Let’s paraphrase:

    Somehow, I can’t work up sympathy for British citizens who choose to live or put their money in foreign lands.

    – British Government circa 1773

22. Would they who can’t work up any sympathy for *US citizens* who choose to live or put their money in foreign countries get your very correct and brilliant paraphrasing, bubblebustin?

23. It’s not complicated. Governments around the world have left it to their courts to write the final chapter on FATCA.

    it really irks me that none of these people talk about, for example, resident EU citizens with US place of birth and how FATCA impacts them. It’s the dirty little secret they don’t want to talk about.

24. Don

    Resident Eu citizens with a Usa place of birth are treated differently than a resident Eu citizen with two Usa citizen parents

25. The more I watch the EU video the words most of these people are in denial except for Sophie.

    The whole method of debate allows those who are trying to push FATCA onto the EU to paint the picture in an inaccurate way. If each MEP was allowed to have follow up questions and have a real debate, the unfairness of FATCA would become more apparent.

    It was hour plus of boring people into FATCA. However I think there is a good opportunity to get an EU court to rule against the IGAs. One guy had mentioned it’s up to each individual member state to protect the rights of their own citizens. It seems he accepts there is a problem with dual EU/US citizens resident in the EU.

    What they have to accept is if you have residential based taxation, you need to residential based information exchange.