UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
@MuzzledNoMore: Translink schedule gives times of 30-40 minutes from UBC loop to Vancouver city centre. Of course if there is traffic it could be more like an hour.
@heartsick: yes, that link is very helpful with transit times and routes:
http://www.translink.ca/
Hello to all Brockers, especially (but not only) you who are thinking of attending in Vancouver.
I just got off the phone with one of the Vancouver Federal Court representatives; I called to inquire about whether there was any amplification in the courtroom, or other accommodation available for a member of the public needing hearing support (in addition to my 2 hearing aids). Having never been in a law courtroom before except when I became a Canadian Citizen, and especially never a Federal Courtroom, I had no idea what provisions might be made…..
Apparently the lawyers and judge (and, I guess, witnesses called) do use microphones, and there are speakers in the ceiling. Further, at the end of a case, one can purchase for $15 a CD of the entire event (likely available several weeks post trial) . Thus, for those of you who are not going to attend, you two could hear the entire event if you wish!!!!!! (And can send the travel money you saved – – minus $15 – – to ADCS)
I also learned that hearings always start at 9:30 AM and the doors open only 15 minutes in advance. Seating is first come, first served, something to keep in mind if you, like me, would really like a seat near the front (or right under one of the ceiling speakers), The trial number was mentioned to him but he had no information RE what courtroom would be used.
Asked how many public seats are available in these courtrooms, he replied “it depends on the interest in the case”; there are rooms with 100 visitor seats but also rooms with only 10 visitor seats. On hearing this, I stated that there definitely will be need for more than 10 seats. If others who do plan to attend also called and spoke with a Federal Court Rep in Vancouver (604-666-3232) (on maybe any topic related to the trial setting or date) and mentioned the likelihood of a good turnout, maybe the court schedulers will be encouraged to book a room with more seats. One wonders if the trial’s designated room provides more public seating, will this in turn spark more interest by the press????? We can only try…..
@LM
“one can purchase for $15 a CD of the entire event”
Great investigative work! That’s something we would love to hear.
Hello to LM and all other Brockers from PatCanadian.
My new email address is patcanadian2015@gmail.com. This email has been set up for a specific purpose. If you are planning on attending the court proceedings in Vancouver on August 4-5 you may wish to contact me anonymously or otherwise. LM has suggested that we build a list to connect with Brockers coming from afar to attend this event in case you wish to share housing options in Vancouver (rooms, dormitories, apartments). I will try to connect people who may wish to save money in this pricey city.
It would also be useful to have a list just so we know approximately how many people plan to attend the FATCA lawsuit trial. As LM has stated in the previous post, the amount of public seating is dependent on the interest in the case. When we have an idea of attendance we can let the Federal Court Rep know this.
I look forward to hearing from you all. Very good idea to call the court LM!
patcanadian2015@gmail.com
Count me in for both days, PatCanadian, and THANK-YOU! As you already know, though, I don’t need accommodation.
And another THANK-YOU to LM for talking to the court reps!
Great work.
I want to be there sooo badly, but can’t. I just found out my husband and I need to fly out there in a week and a half, due to a death in his family. 🙁
I guess I’ll have to make do with the CD.
Does anyone have any idea how long it would be after the summary trial for a decision to be released?
Apologies if this question has already been answered…
What happens if we win the summary trial? What happens if we lose? Is some outcome other than win/lose possible, e.g. an injunction to prevent CRA turning over information to the IRS until another case is settled?
Thanks.
@ NorthernShrike
Those are good questions and there may not be definitive answers … yet. I think it was mentioned that no matter which party loses there would likely be an appeal and the May 4th update here said there was a chance that a win for Ginny and Gwen in August could bring interim relief from FATCA reporting which isn’t set to begin until September. However, right now we’ve got to focus on making sure the lawsuit is funded by August 1st. The last minute donations in late April were amazing but it would be so much better to not put the ADCS team and all of us who are grateful that there is a lawsuit (thanks to that team) through that kind of anxiety again.
I agree with EmBee:
“right now we’ve got to focus on making sure the lawsuit is funded by August 1st”
No matter what happens on August 4th and 5th, victory or defeat, we are headed back to court. That can only happen if we raise the necessary funds to get us there.
It was my impression that a win would waive the right to continue litigation over charter rights infringements.
Is that correct? Can someone confirm?
There are 7 million US citizens living outside the US. If each one only donated 1 dollar (it would be the price of a cup of coffee!!) we could fund this lawsuit and a cbt lawsuit, too!! It’s obvious that not everyone is reading IBS, that’s why we have to give more than a dollar. Please make sure to mention EVERY donation so that donors know that you received their money and it didn’t get lost in the mail. It also encourages them and others to donate more!!
Has anyone seen this MoneySense artical? I don’t think the tax portion of Bill C-51 got much press.
http://www.moneysense.ca/must-read/bill-c-51-your-tax-info-at-heightened-risk-experts-say/
@ Ed
Big find! We knew Bill C-51 was a despicable attack on our privacy and a big step towards a totalitarian police state. Now we are even more convinced. What’s next? I can only think it will be even worse than what I can imagine and I have a pretty far-reaching imagination. We not only must stop Harper we have to push back all of his “reforms” too.
Does anyone know anything about this?
Hatch Statement on IRS Data Breach
http://www.finance.senate.gov/newsroom/chairman/release/?id=321a08db-f740-4a16-8ebf-69ca1dac396a
@ Ellen — Here’s one of several articles on this: http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/05/26/irs-breach/27975205/
@Canoe – thanks for posting the article about the IRS hack which I heard about last night. The VERY BIG question in my mind is – – WILL THE IRS INFORM THOSE PEOPLE WHO’S ACCOUNTS WERE HACKED AND PROVIDE NEW SSNs AND LETTERS TO THEIR BANKS AND OFFER COMPENSATION IF THERE IS LOSS FROM THIS BREACH?
Or will the IRS just go merrily along keeping it all under wraps leaving the entire nation (and all us expats) just deathly worried? Can one sue the IRS for such lax practices, especially if one’s life is destroyed because of this?
@LM
Apparently the affected taxpayers have been informed and given free credit monitoring.
@ Bubblebustin – good to know the affected folks will get free credit monitoring. I still wouldn’t want to be any of them and the IRS deserves all the stone and pie-throwing they are going to get.
Thanks for posting my contact information in regard to upcoming August 4-5 trial dates. I just want to add the following.
List for Courthouse attendance August 4th and 5th:
Please email patcanadian2015@gmail.com if you are attending the FATCA trial in Vancouver whether you are local or coming from a distance. This list is for counting purposes only. You only need to let us know if you are able to attend to give number of people coming to the court. If you do not wish to give your name, that is fine. A Brock or Maple Sandbox alias will do. The court has rooms of varying size (10 to 100 occupants) and the interest in the case will influence the size of the facility we are given.
If you can’t attend, you don’t need to let me know. It is understandable that some can’t afford the trip, particularly if they live at a distance. We are not the wealthy tax evaders that the IRS would like to think we are.
For those who would like to attend and are travelling from afar, I will be posting the following shortly:
Budget and moderately price lodging options, transit and dining in Vancouver
PatCanadian, thanks so much for taking on this role. I will post your info in my post above.
At our end I know that Tricia, John, me, and Plaintiff Gwen and her teenage son will be going.
Everyone please remember: we still need donations to keep the litigation going. No donations today by mail or PayPal. [CORRECTION, JUST RECEIVED PAYPAL DONATION FROM LOWER CANADA]
Thanks Stephen Kish. I’ve added you all to the list and look forward to meeting everyone in August. Hope we get more many donations in the meantime.
@ Pat Canadian – For your very helpful efforts I am sending hugs and several gallon-size cyber chocolate fudge sundaes – – the real ones I can offer you on August 4 & 5. Thanks so much for this!
And, yes, you can add my name to the list – – flights are all arranged!!! YAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY!
🙂 🙂 🙂
This morning, when thinking about the rather stuck thermometer, the at times too empty mailbox, and slow postal times for mailing (including my latest contribution, mailed last week), that old Marvelettes song popped into my head and is still there —
“Please Mister Postman, look and see
If there’s a letter in your bag for me…
Please Mr. Postman,
Deliver the letter —
The sooner the better!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0rcoyIt5ZX0
@ Canoe & all – –
While all of us can, and may have (even several times), donated to achieve the amazing $400,000.00 mark, may I suggest that it is time, again, to reach out broadly beyond our Brocker community to let others know what basic issues are at stake here and why they, too, might want to be / should be supportive of our efforts. The issue is NOT (in total) FATCA and US Persons – – the issue is THE UNDOING OF OUR SACRED CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS – – a slippery slope (as one can see by looking in history books, including – – but not only – – in relation to Germany 1933).
In just over a month from now the IGA will have reached a 1-year mark (received royal ascent July 19, 2014) and in a little over 2 months this discriminatory law (passed under duress and the threat of severe economic sanctions from a foreign power following no government investigation as to whether this was constitutional) the IGA will be challenged – – BY ADCS – – in Federal Court!!! We have helped to make this happen, but we still need financial support.
Now is the time to write to EVERY ONE you know to ask if they approve of legalized discrimination in Canada. Now is the time to ask if these people they think private information about Canadians should be sent to a foreign country (the USA) just because this person (or their parent) was born there and this country claims them as permanently taxable because of this accident of birth.
Now is the time to ask if these people (your friends, neighbors, coworkers, fellow community organization members) would be willing to support – – in some small (or not so small) way – – the reinstatement of non-discrimination (the full and equal rights of ALL Canadians no matter what their color or creed or sexual orientation or place of birth). While it is not Christmas, when charity donations are frequently made at a higher frequency and dollar level, it is getting close to Canada Day; what kind of Canada do these folks want and are they willing to support (in some small or not so small way) a costly battle to right this very wrong infringement on this basic foundation our Constitution?
Now is the time to ask them if our banking system deserves more rights, support and accommodation than our citizens. If every one that we know would donate just $5 or $10 (or more if they could afford it), we would quickly get that thermometer going again.
OK, I’ve fluffled my cheer-leader pom-poms. Now, if anyone else has some good ideas for getting those donations up, please share.
@Canoe
Nice choice of version.
Great song always ….. but nice version.