UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
@Dash1729
oh that top of post 🙂
guess I should read more and click less eh?
I certainly hope that there is a large contigent of brockers filling the courtroom…..
as a self relinquisher I refuse to live my life in fear of what America may or may not do in the future. I am a Canadian citizen in Canada and live by Canada’s rules. if I were in America, mexico, iran or any other country in the world I would live by that countries laws and not Canada’s.
America can do whatever uncle sam wants to me but as far as I am concerned I will have to be in America for uncle sam to be able to do anything to me.
once again as I have said many times before…if I get a brown envelope it will be going into the circular file or bottom of the bird cage and if another one were to show up the same thing would happen to that one.
I no longer have any inclination nor reason to cross the border into America so if uncle sam really wants me he is going to have to come looking for me…and he had better bring a couple of really big dudes cause I will not be going down without a fight…
@ Dash,
Well, people don’t donate all their after-living-expenses money to ADCS, I would think.
I took two vacations this year. A five-day vacation in Montréal– nothing to do with ADCS/Brock – just a real relaxing vacation 🙂 – and a weekend in Toronto for the ACA tax conference. Both trips were excellent. Even the ACA tax conference trip, though a “busman’s holiday” was a refreshing mini-vacation (it was great meeting other Brockers there too.)
I could have stayed home from either or both vacations and donated that money to ADCS. But I see supporting ADCS as one of several things I do with my money after taking care of necessary living expenses. In fact, I think if someone is planning to take a vacation this summer, Vancouver at the time of the hearing would be a good choice.
So, I don’t think there will be a clear general answer to your question, but I think it’s a priority a person will make on an individual basis. I’m not on the ADCS board, so that’s just my 2 rmb.
Yes, finally something in my neck of the woods!
@pacifica
The timing right after a long weekend does make it especially convenient to take a vacation for.
I agree as always it will be an individual decision but–as always–some guidance as to whether the focus should be a huge show of force from around the country or the world–or a more selective number of participants who can give press interviews–from the point of view of the directors never hurts.
I live in Vancouver-& plan to attend.
I live on the other side of the country and cannot attend. My thoughts, prayers, and support will with be with everyone in attendance.
Not wanting to belabour the subject …. but for some of us ….. it is a serious airfare to get to BC on say Monday the 3rd then hotels, taxis, restaurant meals and so on for Monday through Thursday before flying out again. Some can afford such expenses and some cannot.
@NervousInvestor, Don’t worry about it. Those who can afford to be there will be there. And those who cannot should not feel bad about it. Personally I spent this years vacation money already on donations to the lawsuit and am completely tapped out, so won’t be able to go although I would love to. Instead, I will be there in mind and spirit.
No one knows for certain how this lawsuit will turn out, or what stunts the Canadian government will pull to ensure ‘compliance’ with the big bad scary USA, but I wonder – does anyone think that our Canadian government is concerned enough that it might actually be making contingency plans for the day when/if it is forced to acknowledge that the FATCA IGA is toast? Are the Cons talking to anyone in the American government about this very real possibility and perhaps working on a way to handle that eventuality without all hell breaking loose? Or is everyone just closing their eyes, and operating in ‘react’ mode, as is typically the case? I think I just answered my own question.
nervousinvestor and others,
I put my decision through my budget’s *wants and needs* test. I would love to travel to Vancouver to be there with others but, even as close to Vancouver as is Calgary where I live, I will have to make my monthly donation to ADCS instead, drop in the bucket that it is.
An interesting article:
20,000 Americans moved to the UK in 2013.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11622718/Immigration-nation-where-are-the-Britains-migrants-coming-from-and-why.html
@WhiteKat
Are the Cons talking to the American government? Some have speculated that was what the Obama budget proposal was all about.
@BB, The Obama proposal, if it was a tactic, was more about nullifying the lawsuit; it was not about dealing with the fallout in the event that the lawsuit is successful which is what I was trying to get at in the comment I made. Have either or both of the two governments thought that far ahead or will they just react at the point when/if the FATCA IGA is struck down?
Governments ‘thinking’ strikes me as an oxymoron, lol, especially in the case of both of ours. If they did, though, what would it look like? It’s hard to imagine the Harper government conspiring with the US to somehow bypass the court’s ruling, but I suppose anything’s possible. You think they’ll come up with a plan that the bank’s report directly to the IRS, because that’s what it would take to comply, wouldn’t it?
I think the question of whether to put one’s $1000.00 into the ADCS pot towards legal fees or to put one’s $1000.00 into travel to Vancouver is worth more discussion. Could some of the ADSC exec (and/or Gwen & Ginny) join in this conversation?
And how large will the venue be/how many “public seats” will be available? What is being done to encourage the good investigative press coverage?
Are there any Brockers in the Vancouver area that might be willing to take in some Brockers from other parts of the country who want to attend? Or at least suggest a small not-too-expensive hotel or B&B near the courthouse? Or perhaps there is an Air-B&B that could be rented for a few days if we got together a group of, say, 4 or 6 from other provinces just coming in on Monday and leaving on Thursday? Or anyone have a close friend in Vancouver who will be away on vacation that week and be willing to open their house to Brockers from afar? Let’s look at options, folks…..
I am most interested in attending, and could make this part of a trip to see family in another BC community, but definitely want to know if these monies would be more needed by ADCS to cover the litigation costs (especially if seating at the court will be tight anyway, and if there are enough Brockers coming anyway). Maybe someone should try to make a coordinated list of who IS planning to come and try to facilitate a group-stay somewhere (it would be so interesting and worthwhile to meet and have some outside-of-court time with others) and maybe coordinate transportation to the court sessions?
What say you all?
Obama’s proposal hinted at cutting some slack toward individuals born dual citizens. According to the folks at ADCS, the lawsuit is not limited to “accidentals”, “non-meaningfull’s” or citizens born dual, but all Canadians deemed US persons. As well, they indicated that new plaintiffs can be added at any time.
@Marie, the Obama proposal was very limited. Stupid people like me who had a US passport would not have made the cut. Regardless, it is history anyway. Best bet for salvation is the Canadian lawsuit.
@LM
I expect to come and hope to be able to commit for sure within the next few weeks. I’d probably fly up from Seattle and use some FF miles to get there with minimal cost–but it would definitely help me to feel that I can justify the trip if there were some low cost housing options. Hotels in downtown Vancouver–like any major city–can be quite expensive so hopefully some less expensive options will emerge.
@all
My husband can possibly arrange for a block of rooms at a discount at the Westin Grand downtown Vancouver if we can get a definitive number of people who’d need them, and for how many nights.
It’s right after the BC Day long weekend so availability may be an issue, but we can enquire.
It’s within walking distance to the courthouse.
@BB AWESOME! I’ve been rethinking my budget…maybe I can afford it! Let us all know what you come up with!
@all http://www.airbnb.com is a great way to stay places on a limited budget. You can rent by the whole house/apartment or by the room, depending on what you can afford as well as by the location. Just plug in what you are willing to pay and what amenities you require and see what’s available. My family travelled all over Europe on a budget this way. We got an apartment in the centre of Paris for 5 nights for only $650. Check it out!
@ Dash 1729 – good to hear about your tentative plans for Vancouver/August 4 + 5. Alternative to hotel – – could look for an Air-B&B if a bunch of Brockers want to join in. Any Vancouver Brockers out there with inside information?
@ Bubblebustin – – UBC is only 9 km from downtown Vancouver. Sometimes, especially in the summer, there are dorm rooms for rent. Anyone think this might be worth looking into?
Negativity, bullying, ostracization, passive aggressive comments – all guaranteed to take this whole fundraising effort down. People need to realize that this is a place where EVERYONE needs to feel accepted (even people like me who have a tendency to stir up shit). Seriously people, EMPATHY is the name of our game here. Otherwise we are just like them. Acceptance, understanding, not criticism is key. We CANNOT succumb to the games of those who oppress us.
Be kind. Be understanding. Be empathetic. We are NOT them.
Something to consider for August. May not be up to ‘vacation standards, but worth looking at, especially if there is a group of us.
http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Hotel_Review-g154943-d254466-Reviews-Pacific_Spirit_Hostel_at_UBC-Vancouver_British_Columbia.html#REVIEWS