Thanks to @HelenBurggraf for this about the upcoming problems created by the Dutch banks. You can see the actual video from the Dutch banks here – is this information accurate or not? https://t.co/WW1K973T4l https://t.co/wR3hhghhO7
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) August 31, 2019
The most important issue in the world today (forget about the demonstrations in Hong Kong) is whether US born people can supply banks with a US Social Security Number! Yes, it’s time to formally document, those undocumented US born people, who have always lived in other countries!
By way of background, the FATCA IGAs require that the banks include an individual’s TIN (Social Security Number) as part of FATCA reporting. Because the “powers to be” in U.S. Treasury, never contemplated that there might be accidental Americans (what in the world are those?), who did not have a Social Security Number, Treasury relaxed the requirement of a Social Security number until December 31, 2019. It is NOT clear what happens on January 1. 2020. Do the banks cease to be compliant with their obligations under the FATCA IGAs? Are the banks required to close the accounts of those life forms, who were born in the USA and are living as “undocumenteds” without a US Social Security Number? It looks like the Dutch banks think that account closures may be appropriate. There have also been “bank noises” coming out of the UK and France suggesting the same thing.
The UK, France, Netherlands (and Canada) have the same kind of IGA. Actually, most of the world has the same FATCA IGA. This means that “accidental Americans” the world over may be having problems. It’s just that “USness” (usually based on indentification of place of birth) is more visible in some countries (Europe) than in others (Canada).
Since it’s the IGA that governs what is required to be disclosed, it’s helpful to look to the IGA to see what is actually required. Not a single media article has referenced the section of the various IGAs that would require the closing of accounts. But, no matter …*
As Ms. Burggraf writes:
In the latest development in what is becoming a fast-moving international story concerning the bank accounts of tens of thousands of “accidental Americans” living outside of the U.S., it has emerged that the Dutch Banking Association has posted an animated video on the home page of its website in which it warns such clients of the need to get their U.S. Social Security numbers – if they don’t wish to lose their Dutch bank accounts.
A spokesperson for a European accidental Americans organization said that the video appeared to suggest that Europe’s banks were “well on their way to becoming the willing agents of the U.S. Internal Revenue Service.“
The actual video (which is well worth the look) is referenced in the following tweet:
A public service message about #FATCA from the Dutch banks – look out! They say they may no longer be able to provide services to those who where "Born In The USA" and are therefore @TaxCheatByBirth! https://t.co/Nf6HvJJakA
— U.S. Citizen Abroad (@USCitizenAbroad) August 31, 2019
Yes, it’s true. The Dutch banks are very anxious to assist in subjecting Dutch citizens and residents to the U.S. tax system.
Hard to believe that:
1. The United States is claiming tax residents of other countries as their own U.S. tax residents; and
2. That the banks are so willing to assist in facilitating this.
It apparently hasn’t dawned on these people, that the U.S. and the U.S. alone, defines exactly which Dutch residents are subject to claims by the United States.
In any event, it seems to me that the video makes some claims of questionable accuracy. If you agree, perhaps you could post some of these as comments.
And yes for those who are only interested in what steps they might take to get a U.S. Social Security the answer may be found:
Here for those living in Canada (actually its worse); and
Here for those living outside the United States and Canada.
The Dutch banks are blanketing the airwaves requesting that those with a U.S. birthplace provide the banks with a Social Security number. It’s not easy having a U.S. birthplace. In fact, life is probably too short to live it as an (accused) American.
To apply for a Social Security Number or not not apply for a Social Security Number, that is the question. Whether tis better to …
What should these poor people do?
*Since Canada has the same kind of IGA as the Netherlands, France and the UK I thought it might be interesting to get the Canada Revenue Agency’s description of the Social Security Number issue. Interpret this as you will …
U.S. federal taxpayer identification number (U.S. TIN)
12.24 The U.S. TIN of a specified U.S. person that is an account holder (or a person identified as a controlling person) must be reported. However, there is a phase-in period in connection with preexisting accounts. A U.S. TIN includes:
a social security number (SSN); an individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN); and an employer identification number (EIN).
12.25 It must be reported for the 2014 to 2016 reportable years in connection with a preexisting account only if the U.S. TIN exists in the records of the reporting Canadian financial institution. If it does not exist, the financial institution must report the specified U.S. person’s date of birth if that information is in its records.
12.26 For the 2017, 2018 and 2019 calendar years in connection with preexisting accounts, a reporting Canadian financial institution that has not obtained the U.S. TIN is required to:
- review electronically searchable data for any missing U.S. TIN;
- request any missing required U.S. TIN from each account holder annually; and
obtain and report the date of birth of each account holder and controlling person whose required U.S. TIN is missing.
12.27 A financial institution must make reasonable efforts to secure an account holder’s U.S. TIN. A financial institution is authorized to ask its account holders to provide a U.S. TIN at any time regardless of the phase-in provided for in the Agreement (see paragraph 4 of Article 3 and paragraph 4 of Article 6). If an account holder does not have a U.S. TIN, the account holder is required to apply for one and provide the number to the Canadian financial institution. If the account holder does not provide a U.S. TIN, the account remains reportable.
12.28 “Reasonable efforts” means genuine attempts to acquire the TIN of the account holder of a U.S. reportable account.
Reasonable efforts include contacting the account holder (e.g., by mail, in-person or by phone), including a request made as part of other documentation or electronically (e.g., by facsimile or by e-mail); and reviewing electronically searchable information maintained by a related entity of the financial institution. However, reasonable efforts do not necessarily require closing, blocking, or transferring the account, nor conditioning or otherwise limiting its use. Notwithstanding the foregoing, reasonable efforts can continue to be made after the above mentioned period.