1,759 published expatriates in Q2 2017 Federal Register list

71 thoughts on “1,759 published expatriates in Q2 2017 Federal Register list”

1. @Eric

   Would the renunciation fee include compiling names to go in the confounded list?

2. @Bubblebustin: My guess is that it doesn’t: State gets the $2350/head and keeps all of it without handing any over to the IRS. I.e. from the IRS’ perspective the list is an “unfunded mandate”. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s literally handled by one person copy-and-pasting the names out of PDF files.

   I’m also guessing that whoever has to compile the list has realised that it won’t help their career one bit to spend lots of time doing a good job on it — especially since it brings in no money for the IRS, compared to other things they could be doing it. So of course they half-ass it.

3. TaxProf blog’s post about The List:
   http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2017/08/number-of-americans-renouncing-their-us-citizenship-on-pace-for-all-time-high-in-2017-up-14-from-201.html

   And some Twitter discussion about Andrew Mitchel’s post
   https://twitter.com/jonesj/status/893179659508043777

4. @Eric

   By same same token, it doesn’t seem that whovever’s compiling the list is at risk of losing their job for doing a lousy job either!

   I often wonder how long the list will be around, as it’s become more of a way to shame the US government than the individuals on it.

5. Forbes has covered the Q2 renunciation figures:

   https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/08/04/long-list-of-americans-who-renounced-citizenship-is-more-about-taxes-than-trump/#3d381e2016b9

6. Well this must be a first, I think I have the honour of appearing on the list twice with an entry of exactly the same three names but four years apart! It seems an unlikely coincidence to be different people.
   Whatever are they smoking down there?

7. Mike Godfrey at Tax News has a brief article
   http://www.tax-news.com/news/Jump_In_US_Expats_Renouncing_Citizenship____74921.html

   Getting a decent reception over on Reddit so far:
   https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6ruzwd/jump_in_us_expats_renouncing_citizenship/

8. From one of the Reddit comments:
   “the US is the only significant country in the world that claims extraterritorial tax jurisdiction .
   Perfect. Better than calling it: CBT.

9. @Heidi, re; “..appearing on the list twice with an entry of exactly the same three names but four years apart! ..” they don’t seem to care about accuracy, or about the timing – since some people have never appeared at all and some have been published with a significant delay.

   The spiteful ‘name and shame’ list appears to be meant as a kind of stand in for putting people on display in the stocks, but who really reads the list anyway – or at least who did up until the rise in renunciations became news? I’m sure most American homelanders don’t even know it exists.

10. @badger
    I just wonder about the procedure they follow that could have made this happen? My spouse who appeared with me originally has not reappeared.
    I wonder what are the chances of someone with exactly the same name expatriating within 5 years? Ours is not that common.

11. @Heidi
    Well maybe then I still have a chance of appearing on the list after a few years?

12. @Heidi, you are not alone. Over the years duplicate names have appeared many times, sometimes in the same quarterly list, other times months or years apart, as your name did. I don’t know of any good explanation for that. The process that produces those lists is strange and mysterious. My name has never appeared, but even if it did I could not be sure it referred to me rather than to someone else with the same name.

13. I believe some people appear twice on the list because they should be doubly ashamed of renouncing the grrrrrrreatest citizenship on earth.

14. Good to see CBS picking up news
    Why more Americans are handing in their citizenship

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-more-americans-are-handing-in-their-citizenship/

15. It’s not quite so great when CBS says this:

    “It’s the latest sign of rising resentment over a federal crackdown on tax evasion.”

    Does someone want to explain to CBS that it’s the latest sign of rising resentment over a federal crackdown on non-evaders?

16. I agree with Norman Diamond. There’s nothing good about biased articles with heavy spin spin spin (Notice how CBS put a that Saint Kitts & Nevis economic citizenship video in the middle of the article, instead of stating the fact that most people renouncing US citizenship live in Canada and the UK.)

    Contrast the Reddit /r/politics reactions to the fairly neutral & brief Tax News article with the reactions to the CBS article: it’s all a bunch of Homelanders saying that only rich people complain about it, and clueless expats who think the FEIE solves all their problems

    https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/6s6ud5/why_more_americans_are_handing_in_their/

17. Chinese media are running with translations of the CBS story, complete with St Kitts & Nevis passport picture
    http://life.china.com.cn/2017-08/09/content_21526.html

18. @Eric: Is it really true that most renunciations take place in Canada and the UK? I’ve long suspected that the #1 source of renunciations is the US Consulate in Hong Kong. I personally have encountered around a dozen HK and Mainland Chinese who obtained US citizenship who are now strongly regretting their rash decision. Many of these proudly gamed and cheated the US system to get green cards or blue passports (Chinese are funny that way: loving to brag loudly in public about how devious they are), either as a bolthole before the Hong Kong handover to China, or just for plain status and face-gaining. US citizenship actually meant nothing to them except as a bit of bling to show off, so they’re shedding it now in a panic. There must be tens of thousands of such people who are learning about FATCA thanks to the carpet-bombing the Hong Kong banks are doing of every single account holder, asking about US citizenship. To my knowledge, the US Consulate in Hong Kong was among the first to state on their website that renunciation appointments are henceforth limited to those with legitimate Hong Kong residency, probably because they were being stampeded by panicking mainland Chinese green card holders. Hence my belief that Hong Kong is the world vortex for renunciations. Maybe Shanghai ranks up there too. The name and shame list, if real, would more likely have a lot more Asian names on it.

19. The million duals in Canada outnumber the tens of thousands in Hong Kong (or is that tens of thousands total in Hong Kong and the rest of PRC?). Even if Canadian banks allow their FATCA’ed customers to keep their bank accounts, life is still miserable for the US’s diaspora.

20. Re CBS news article agreed more research needed BUT everyone should read the comments they are coming in over 150. Good comments to send onto sources

21. @Barbara: “Is it really true that most renunciations take place in Canada and the UK?”

    WSJ wrote this citing a State Department source in August 2014: “three-quarters of all renunciations are processed by consular offices in Canada, the U.K. and Switzerland.”

    https://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2014/08/30/government-fee-to-give-up-u-s-citizenship-is-raised-fivefold/

22. Well, I suppose those numbers about renunciations mostly in Canada, the UK, and Switzerland, are good news for me. That means the lines will be shorter at the Asian consulates I get to choose from, hopefully next year at the rate things are proceeding for me.

23. I missed this story from last year about Ira Brown, a basketball player from Texas who became a Japanese citizen in August 2016
    http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2016/09/05/basketball/japanese-men-search-ways-improve/

    More background about him:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Brown
    http://www.wbur.org/onlyagame/2017/03/10/ira-brown-tokyo-basketball

    Hasn’t shown up in the Federal Register yet

24. Over at Republicans Overseas

    Republicans Overseas https://www.facebook.com/republicansoverseas/

    Sen. Rand Paul (2nd left) believes 1) Territorial Taxation for Individuals should be included in Trump’s tax reform package, 2) the chance to pass the tax reform legislation this year is very good, and 3) overseas Americans must contact their representatives and senators in both parties urging them to support the inclusion of Territorial Taxation for Individuals as part of the tax reform and vote for the tax reform legislation. Solomon Yue (1st left), Vice Chairman and CEO of Republicans Overseas, his wife, Dr. Ourania Yue (2nd right), and Hervé Prettre of Switzerland (1st right) thanked Sen. Paul for his steadfast support of overseas American issues. Two AARO officials from France also attended this event.

    Write to your representatives https://democracy.io/#!/

    From: Keith REDMOND
    Sent: 17 August 2017 10:49
    To: Nina OLSON
    Cc: Rostyslav SHILLER
    Bcc: American Overseas Organisations Leaders
    Subject: Effects on 9 Million Americans Overseas – New Passport Program: Why Notice to Taxpayers Matters
    Importance: High
    Dear Ms OLSON:
    I hope this e-mail finds you well.
    I thank you for your recent blog posting on Tax Connections: https://www.taxconnections.com/…/new-passport-program-why…/…
    There are some serious outstanding questions that the IRS must realistically address which affects 9 million Americans overseas (9M is the latest US State Department figure).
    Since the IRS is deficient in sending out international correspondence as stated by the Inspector General therefore, how will this work with Americans overseas? This is one of many questions regarding the 9M Americans overseas especially those who have never lived in the US or who have not lived in the US for many years or those who have another citizenship or those who have no interest in going to the US?
    It is important to note that a growing number of Americans overseas look at this as ‘free renunciation’ as they will not become compliant with a tax system in which they do not live and are more than happy to have their passports revoked. This has nothing to do with lack of patriotism but a question of personal security for him/herself and family. Having said this if the American overseas’ passport is revoked and he/she does not have another citizenship, the American overseas could feasibly lose his/her job and will not be able to pay the alleged debt and certainly will not return to a country where he/she has zero personal and professional life.
    I have been given key contacts within the IRS to address the aforementioned questions but I thought it would be best to address them with you initially as you have a better understanding of the serious situation of Americans overseas (i.e. the American overseas is not like a homeland Americans).
    Please note that I have blind copied the heads of the Americans overseas organisations as well as those who are intimately involved in defending the rights of Americans overseas AND the associated populations adversely affected by current US government policies. Should they wish to identify themselves, they are more than welcome to do so.
    I sincerely look forward to your reply (i.e. the reality of the situation).
    Respectfully yours,
    Keith REDMOND
    American Overseas Global Advocate
    Americans Across Borders
    Paris / Washington DC

25. https://www.facebook.com/groups/citizenshiptaxation/

    Keith Redmond

    Good Day –
    It is important to note that there is a significant amount of work, lobbying, et al. being done (even during the recess of US Congress) to ensure that Territorial Taxation for Individuals is part of the tax reform behind the scenes. The Republican Overseas proposal will be the ONLY proposal considered regardless of what one may hear otherwise. These are the facts.
    Territorial Taxation for Individuals will resolve some key problems of the Accidental American. Not all, but some of the more serious problems.
    I will be coming back to you when I need you to take action and CALL (not write but call) the two Senators in the state where you were born and explain your situation as an Accidental American. If your English is not at a level to call, you can let me know and I will assist.
    This will be IMPERATIVE and no excuses shall be accepted to not do so. This is will be an important action which MUST be taken.
    The Good Fight continues….
    Please share with other Americans overseas, Accidental Americans, and the associated affected populations.
    Keith REDMOND
    American Overseas Global Advocate
    https://www.gofundme.com/american-overseas-advocate
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