Finally the Bopp Suit has Arrived!

188 thoughts on “Finally the Bopp Suit has Arrived!”

1. @JC Another difference, is many countries tax from the cost basis on the date of entry where the US just wants all the assets for their residents.

2. Those added accounting/lawyers fees were not all attributable to that specific lack of care on the part of the IRS. Our situation was too complicated for us to want to deal directly with the IRS. Unfortunately for us, the agent we got was just embarking on his learning curve when transitioning people from OVDI to Streamlined (where one is treated like a criminal to another).

   Let just say to us, the IRS should be called “The Department of Redundancy Department”, when they find the need to do the same steps again and again. At one point our accountant blew up at him for having to keep going back to them for the same info. I hope that answers your questions.

3. PS, Dash

   At one point, our IRS agent told our accountant that he wished that he too could bill by the hour. If he was in a business where he could, we would have been fired a long time ago.

4. @bubblebustin

   Thanks for explaining. Yes, some situations are complex enough that one unavoidably needs an attorney but I always prefer to err on the side of not using an attorney except where absolutely necessary.

5. @Dash

   Yes, one only needs to have used the services of one frivolously once (not in our case) to learn that.

6. It may not necessarily be such a bad thing that all the media coverage so far focuses on the celebrity plaintiff, Rand Paul. In fact, I would guess that if they start focusing on the fact that Daniel is a veteran, most coverage and comments would pronounce him guilty of treason of the highest order for renouncing his US citizenship. I’m serious.

   Unlike the Senate Finance Committee, which might have been influenced by greater press coverage in our favor, a court proceeding is theoretically immune to public opinion. Any public opinion would anyway rarely be in our favor. I prefer for the trial to proceed under the radar, on its own merits, and if it comes out the way we hope, let the public outrage happen after the court strikes down FATCA and FBARs.

   And we can save our energy and typing fingers for harassing lawmakers, such as the House Overseas Caucus and the Senate Finance Committee.

7. July 17, 2015, Haaretz: “Rand Paul, Jerusalem attorney file lawsuit against U.S. tax regulations”

8. AARO supports lawsuit & safe harbor: AARO supports all efforts to eliminate or alleviate the damaging effects of FATCA,
   https://www.facebook.com/aaro.org/posts/866196350137343

   AARO’s sole concern is the financial, professional, domestic and personal well-being of people abroad who are being treated like “tax cheats” because of financial accounts they must maintain in their countries of residence.

10. @Jefferson
    I am really pissed off at all the fuss about Merkel and this girl. She was very kind- and people are trying to make Merkel look like an ogre. It is obvious that Germany cannot take on all the immigrants who want in. I think the whole western world is becoming unhinged because of all the immigrants who want in legally or illegally. It is also my opinion that help should be given within those countries instead of causing so much migration. Then we have a clash of mentalities/cultures and way of life that are not easily dealt with.

11. I left another comment at Democrats Abroad:

    It is astonishing that Democrats Abroad would claim to support residence-based taxation while explicitly supporting FATCA. Do you not realize that these are mutually exclusive positions? With RBT there would be no reason for something as draconian as FATCA, which turns US expats into pariahs. The US could simply join the OECD’s CRS (Common Reporting Standard) which applies only to countries which already practice RBT. Oh, I forgot, the US is “exceptional”, so that’s not too likely to happen, is it?

    Of course this will be quickly purged from the DA site since democracy is obviously now a one-way street for Democrats.

12. Our friend Julian Ross Hudson Jr. didn’t mince words on the AARO facebook page:

    Safe Harbor is a joke that is equivalent to the township pass system of apartheid era South Africa. It forces you to carry government issued papers that show you have the right to be away from your government designated area. Safe Harbor is just typical government double speak along the lines of, separate but equal.
    A.A.R.O. does a disservice to those it purports to speak for when it tries to be neutral on these two diametrically opposed proposals. It is only the court case that is trying to free the slaves.

13. Thanks, EmBee, for passing along Julian’s comment at A.A.R.O. (You’re one busy Bee in all the places you visit gathering, like honey, strong and accurate comments like those of Julian Ross Hudson Jr.)

    And, Julian — the perfect analogy of the Safe Harbor Exemption you gave. How can what you point out ever be disputed by A.A.R.O., A.C.A. or Democrats Abroad, etc.? Thank you for not mincing any words – again!

14. Exactly, Deckard!!! Hope DA has the guts to keep the comment and what you point out to them!

15. Julian’s analogy is spot-on, in a 20th century context. One may also look further back into history and liken Safe Harbor to being promoted from field slave to house slave. You might gain a few extra comforts and privileges, but you still can’t leave the plantation.

16. The four Liberal Supreme Court justices will go along with any Obama ruling. The 3 conservative (Scalia, Thomas & Alito will probably go against Obama the 2 weak kneed Republican (Roberts and Kennedy) are the deciding votes. Based on recent decision 1 or both will go along with the 4 Liberals

17. I think the circuit court will overthrow the 4th and 5th amendment and Supreme Court rulings in US v. Sullivan and Garner v. US, just like other circuit courts have done. I think the Supreme Court will leave the circuit court ruling intact just like they did with other circuit courts. We will not learn the opinions of individual judges. Maybe some will be conflicted between their hatred of Obama v. their hatred of Paul, but we won’t even learn that much.

18. Tim Smyth shared this article with FB American Expatriates group:

    http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/Rand-Paul-and-Republicans-Love-Tax-Evasion-and-Offshore-Havens

    Please respond to the article, I was able to login to the comments section with a FB account.

19. @Polly this is the woman the NSA was spying on. Here we cannot take all of the refugees coming in, but neither Germany nor Switzerland protects the rights of people who are already here from harassment by the countries they left, examples: Eritrea and the USA. The government officials get spied on by the US, they complain, but after a while it is business as usual with the US. Do you think that EWS would pat you on the shoulder if you told her our story? Do they know the damage their actions (or inactions) are causing?

20. @Jefferson
    I have a lot of anger inside, but I reserve it for the people who created FATCA and use CBT. I dont think I have to spread it to all areas of my life- which I feel you are doing. Focus more.

21. Here is my response to: http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Political-Action-Legislation/Rand-Paul-and-Republicans-Love-Tax-Evasion-and-Offshore-Havens which I published on FaceBook. I am unable to publish it to the AFL-CIO site, I get a strange error message, perhaps and IP filter.

    If anyone is able to post a response to the article on the AFL-CIO site, would you please post this on my behalf.

    As to your remark “Tax evasion and illegality do not belong in the official platform of any political party”, I must agree with your sentence in the abstract, but the sentence is misplaced in this context: for this is not what the lawsuit and political efforts directed against FATCA are about. They are about enforcing fundamental rights embodied in the Constitution.

    FATCA, though touted as a method of preventing people resident in the US from hiding untaxed money offshore, has destroyed, is destroying, or will destroy the lives of US citizens, green card holders, and those associated to them through business partnerships or family relations merely because they live permanently abroad, and regardless of whether they hold the nationality of their country of residence as well, and regardless of whether they are compliant with US’s punitive and confiscatory double extraterritorial taxation regime.

    Working people are having their bank accounts closed and are losing their mortgages, houses and apartments. Small businesses are being closed because business partners and banks do not want to deal with the increased risk and reporting burdens. In many cases, affected people have earned a good portion of their life savings abroad and paid foreign income taxes on the earnings used to build up these savings. Some affected people may not have spent a day in the US, or left the US as young children and do not identify themselves as Americans at all. Yet they are being denied the right to work hard, save, and invest on a level playing field with their neighbors in the countries where they do live.

    There are perhaps roughly 8 million US Citizens living abroad, and many more millions of green card holders living abroad (we speak of the two groups together as US Persons). However, there has never been a census conducted of these persons (required under Article 1 Section 2 USCONST, and to be used to apportion the seats in the House of Representatives among the several states). Many US Citizens abroad cannot vote because no county electoral commission will accept them. The voting situation has improved over the past 10 years or so, but is still an issue. Those than can vote find that any written complaints that they lodge with their Senators and Congresspeople are rarely responded to except with what appear to be form letters or copy-paste boilerplate that do not address the substance of their complaints. Because those persons abroad that can vote in the US have their votes split up over 50 states, they are seen as an insignificant minority and elected officials often do not understand their situations or don’t seem to care much at all about their vote.

    Despite a lack of proportional and effective representation in Congress, the US government continues to usurp jurisdiction over people living in foreign countries. FATCA forces local banks and governments, through extortionist threats (30% withholding), to discriminate against people in ways that are illegal or unconstitutional under their local legal frameworks. And unfortunately, as your article shows, US Persons abroad and their issues are often thrown into the same sack as tax evaders who hide untaxed money obtained in the US in foreign banks. It is in fact the US government, through its double taxation regime, that steals money from the treasuries and economies of foreign nations by imposing taxes on the American diaspora who already pay taxes where they live and should be free to spend and invest in their local economies rather than paying additional taxes to the US. US persons living abroad have money in foreign banks, but these are local banks to them, and they earned their wages fair and square!

    Protection of fundamental rights for minorities even in a majority-rule democratic system is part and parcel of modern democracy. This is why we have a Bill of Rights in the US Constitution, and this is why we have the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the European Convention on Human Rights, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, as well as enumerations of rights embodied in the constitutions of most modern democracies.

    One does not have to agree with Rand Paul in everything he does or believes in. I certainly don’t. But in this case, he is seeking to protect just what the lawsuit says: 4th, 5th, 8th amendment and other rights that the enforcement of FATCA violates. The US claims to be an example of democracy for the world. If so, it must stop treating its diaspora in manners that violate fundamental rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

22. @Polly I am not willing to write democracy and respect for fundamental rights off or give up the fight. Maybe you were able to extract yourself from US Personhood or are living with it successfully, however in my situation, FATBARDT does affect most aspects of my life. So I keep on fighting. Not only for myself, but for everybody else who has been affected, is being affected, or will soon be affected.

23. @Jefferson
    I am not telling you to stop fighting. I am recommending a sharper focus for your energies.
    Some governments are better than others and nobody is perfect.
    We don`t have to hate them all. That just gets to be too much hatred.

24. From the article
    http://www.letemps.ch/Page/Uuid/0e310df8-2bf3-11e5-8a84-afa5481f305f/La_loi_Fatca_attaqu%C3%A9e_en_justice_par_des_Am%C3%A9ricains_de_l%C3%A9tranger

    “Quant à Rand Paul, ses chances d’obtenir gain de cause sont, prédit-il, quasi nulles. «Il faut désormais vivre avec Fatca.»
    which roughly translates as
    “As for Rand Paul, his chances of winning are, according to him almost null. “you must now live with FATCA.”

    Not sure how reliable the author’s sources are, but if true, it seems that Rand Paul does not believe much in this lawsuit…

25. Right, the lawsuit is both necessary and futile.