UPDATE: JUNE 14, 2015
from JakDak:
The Senate Finance Committee chairman, Senator Orrin Hatch (R-UT), has established working groups to study different aspects of the tax system. These working groups are scheduled to report back to the committee by June 26.
Tax Policy Update
June 09, 2015[Interesting: NUMBER OF THE WEEK: 61. The number of countries that have signed on to implement the OECD’s multilateral agreement for the automatic exchange of tax information, in conjunction with the ongoing Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) project. Although the U.S. has committed to implement the standard, it has not yet signed onto the formal agreement (the “multilateral competent authority agreement”), which lays out in detail what information will be exchanged, the timing and method of exchange, and how signatories will work together to ensure compliance. Signatories to the agreement will begin exchanging information as early as 2017. Additionally, the OECD released on June 8 its “Country-by-Country Reporting Implementation Package” developed under the BEPS Action Plan. Under the plan, which the Treasury Department has said it will implement for the 2016 fiscal year, multinational companies are required to aggregate and report information annually regarding where they do business, the global allocation of income, and amount of taxes paid, along with other information that will allow taxing authorities to more closely examine multinationals’ tax practices. The release of the package coincides with the 2015 OECD International Tax Conference in Washington, D.C., this week where OECD representatives are expected to review and discuss key initiatives under BEPS.]
SPOILER ALERT: Comprehensive Tax Reform Unlikely in 2015. In an interview last week, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) outlined a busy legislative agenda between June and August recess: passing a highway bill, cybersecurity legislation, No Child Left Behind, and the Toxic Substances Control Act. Tax reform, however, is conspicuously missing from the list. “We’re certainly not going to be able to be doing big, comprehensive tax reform with this president,” McConnell said. Tax reform optimists have been eyeing the highway reauthorization bill as a potential vehicle to move a limited set of tax reform measures, but according to McConnell, the bill might instead be better suited to pick up a different legislative passenger—the reauthorization of the Export-Import Bank. McConnell believes the highway bill would provide the best opportunity to reauthorize the bank, which is set to expire June 30.
The inability of the Senate Finance Committee Tax Reform Working Groups to meet their original May 31 deadline to report recommendations to Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-UT) and ranking member Ron Wyden (D-OR) only adds to the general pessimism. The international tax working group may offer the only glimmer of hope, with reports that it has made the most progress in hammering out detailed recommendations. The working groups are now aiming to deliver their reports before Congress departs for the July 4th recess.
***************
UPDATE: MAY 25, 2015
Em’s comment to JakDak:
I’m not sure of the where for the SFC recommendations but the when has been delayed:
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/242916-senate-tax-reform-groups-get-more-time
The Senate Finance Committee’s leaders are giving tax reform working groups some more time to formulate their recommendations.
Finance Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and the panel’s top Democrat, Sen. Ron Wyden (Ore.), had hoped for recommendations by the end of May.
But in a statement Thursday, the two senators said that the working groups made it clear that they needed extra time to do the job right. The panel will set a new deadline after lawmakers return from next week’s recess.
“It is our hope these bipartisan working groups will use this extended time to finalize their recommendations for tax reform and produce in-depth analyses of options and potential legislative solutions,” Wyden and Hatch said in a statement.
etc.
*************************
Shadow Raider says
April 29, 2015 at 6:39 pm
The Senate Finance Committee just released the comments sent by the public on tax reform. As expected, there are lots of comments about CBT and FATCA.
http://www.finance.senate.gov/newsroom/chairman/release/?id=3b14e94b-69f9-41e2-9fd3-7d191971b7ee
Hatch, Wyden Release Public Input on Bipartisan Tax Reform
Over 1,400 Submissions Made to Working Groups
WASHINGTON – Finance Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and Ranking Member Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) today released over 1,400 submissions from stakeholders on how to best to overhaul the nation’s broken tax code. In March, the Committee sought input from the public in an effort to provide additional data and information to the Committee’s bipartisan tax working groups, which are currently analyzing existing tax law and examining policy trade-offs and available reform options within each group’s designated area.
“We thank the stakeholders and public who provided us with this valuable data and input,” Hatch and Wyden said. “These submissions have equipped us with the ability to better evaluate how reforming the tax code will affect both American families and business of all kinds. As our bipartisan groups work towards producing substantive recommendations on how to reform the tax code, they will now be able to consider these valuable ideas.”
All comments received by the Committee that met submission requirements were made public.
Submissions can be found below. Total submissions to each bipartisan tax working groups are as follows:
Individual Income Tax – 448
Business Income Tax – 332
Savings & Investment -128
International Tax – 347
Community Development & Infrastructure – 207
Each of the five bipartisan working groups is currently working to produce findings on current tax policy and legislative recommendations within its area, with the goal of having recommendations from each of the five working groups completed by the end of May.
###
Thanks, Shadow Raider, for alerting all here. There will be many Brockers reading, starting with the submissions (not all by individuals) to International Tax.
@R Talbot,
Wrong. Most of the posters here, to the extent that they identify with any American political party, are Democrats. Deeply, bitterly disappointed Democrats. Hence the vitriolic expressions of feelings of betrayal.
But I suspect you knew that.
If you are connected with Democrats Abroad, please tell them to start listening to us, rather than talking down to us.
@R Talbot
Same country exemption will not work. It just makes Americans prisoners of their resident country.
The EU has no borders (like the US States). Many people work in one EU country and live in another.
How will it change the banks decision to close American person accounts? It will just give the banks another question to ask and another layer of complexity to deal with .
Why can’t the US become like the rest of the world and adopt Resident based taxation? It would make their FATCA baby work without stealing from Americans living and working abroad with legitimate bank accounts and retirement saving plans.
I was a Democrat all my life …NOT NOW.
This is a half arsed attempt of Democrats abroad to look like they are doing something.
@RTalbot
As I remember it, the Dems Abroad thought that getting rid of CBT was impossible. So they decided to try anything they could to help the situation. The Reps and IBS are trying to make the point that ceasing CBT is not an impossibility, but the only viable way into the future.
I thought universal healthcare for the American population is a noble cause- and after all, if European countries can do it why can`t America? The problem is that America is bankrupt, and they are trying to get their bills paid by people who have nothing to do with their problems and never were a part of creating these problems- but mismanagement of the country seems to be a greater cause and is actually where the focus should lie. Expats already pay for healthcare in their country of residence and why should they be the ones chosen to pay for repair of roads in America when they dont drive there? Obama has said that the monies collected from abroad will be used to finally get the transportation systems up to date. How can he think that people who have nothing to do with roads or train tracks in America should be responsible for repairing them? And saying that Reps have a hidden agenda because they themselves are tax cheats? First off, that is just another condemnation without proof similar to what is being done with expats, and secondly, how are the Dems not aiding and abetting tax evasion by condoning drug monies in American banks ( South American countries have been demanding bank information for decades which America refuses to give) and then we have Delaware and Wyoming. America ends up being the biggest tax haven in the world, but by American standards only foreign tax havens count and not their own. So lets just say that the Dems have their own hypocrisy, and it would be far better if this whole dilemma was never a bipartisan issue to begin with. Lets get back to the Constitution and everybody abide by these rules, instead of creating new laws like the one called “Civil Forfeiture” which just legalises highway robbery. It is all a crying shame, sir. I long for an America which is as honourable as they proclaim to be.
@R Talbot, you have misread the core essence of the Isaac Brock Society and who most of us are.
We do not consider ourselves American Citizens Abroad. Some of us are Canadian Citizens In Canada, some of us are Irish Citizens In Ireland, some of us are French Citizens In France some of us are Thai In Thailand!!! Why do you think we have issues the organization called ACA?
It is the United States because of its arrogance that is calling Canadian Citizens resident in Canada as being American Citizens Abroad!!
Because we do not classify ourselves as first and foremost as American Citizens Abroad, its impossible for us to be Democrat or Republican!!!
Many of us are active Liberals or New Democrats in Canada, many of us are active Labour or Liberal Democrats in the UK and in similar veins in other countries.
Are you implying that Labour Party members in the UK or New Democats in Canada are actually closet GOP Members in the USA?
I may be making an assumption here, correct me if I am wrong, but you are likely an American Citizen with soley or at least dominant US Nationality who considers home to be some state in the USA?
There are Brockers on the left and on the right but we are united the USA is not the shining city on the hill and is not a place of exeptionalism. At best the USA is solely equal to Canada, Ireland, France, Italy, Greece………………yes, Greece is on equal footing as the USA…..
We stand united that NO nation on Earth may make any laws that infringe on the territory of any other nation!!!
The United States is not exceptional it is arrogant.
A US Passport is NOT “the most valuable travel document in the world.”
Brockers have called Sen Orrin Hatch on the carpet for his proposed legislation that would revoke US Passports, a document many of us do not want but many times are FORCED to carry against our will!!
It is on the watch of a Democrat Congress and President that has impossed the most draconian assault on the liberties of free citizens of other nations who were minding their own business and likely had good things to say about the United States.
Am I a “Democrat Abroad?” NO
Am I a “Republican Overseas?” NO
I am actually a long standing card carrying member of a very liberal political party in my own EU country!!!
But I will rightly align myself with ANY legitimate political party in the USA that wishes to leave me in peace.
But the arrogance of yourself to imply that Brockers were GOP Stooges or ANY US Political Party stooges was amazing.
@Polly, I did not leave America rather America left me!!!
I have stopped using the term Expat as thats a different emigrant classification from what I think of as being a Brocker.
A Brocker is a person whose dominant nationality is something other than the US, a person who has relinquished or renounced USC, or someone who has left and for some reason can not obtain another nationality.
The organization and the actual phrase American Citizens Abroad are what is an Expat in my mind.
Its utterly preposterous and arrogant for the USA to think that it has a right to claim anyone as one of its own when that person has left.
@R talbot
With respect to your comment here:
https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2015/04/29/senate-finance-committee-posts-submissions-and-shadow-raider-reports-to-brock/comment-page-9/#comment-6103112
which I will reproduce.
Let’s consider the “same country exemption” for what it is rather than drifting down the non-productive road of partisan politics. In other words, what does it mean. Not, who is it from.
Starting from first principles.
The Democratic Party (I don’t know them and don’t care about the label) is clearly in support of FATCA. They have made this very clear. Democrats abroad has made it clear that they are in support of FATCA. (Furthermore, in its recent submission to the Senate Finance Committee Democrats Abroad did NOT advocate for the repeal of “citizenship taxation”.) That’s all fine, everybody is entitled to support what they want. That said, (and I recognize that this is my opinion) FATCA is one of the most egregious examples of extra-terriitorial overreach in the history of the world. It is also absolutely immoral for many reasons including the following:
The U.S. dollar as the primary reserve currency
At the end of the World War 2 – in Bretton Woods, NH, the U.S. was trusted to the extent that the U.S. dollar became the primary reserve currency of the world. In practical terms this meant that there would be a constant demand for U.S. dollars because it was the commonly accepted currency. In other words, the U.S. was trusted with the great responsibility of it’s currency becoming the currency that all countries, people and financial institutions would need. Along with this agreement and responsibility, comes the assumption/trust that the U.S. would continue to make the U.S. dollar available. Since Bretton Woods, the U.S. dollar has become the “oxygen of the world financial system”.
FATCA is a law that the U.S. is attempting to IMPOSE through threats of economic sanction on ALL countries of the world. Why all countries? Because, of the status of the U.S. dollar as the world reserve currency. All the world conducts business in U.S. dollars. (This is why the rest of the world will move quickly to create conditions where the U.S. dollar will NOT be the primary reserve currency.)
Through FATCA, the U.S. is saying:
1. If you don’t do what we want (hunt for those we define as U.S. persons)
2. When you access the world reserve currency USD
3. We will deduct 30% of what you are entitled.
In other words, the United States of America – is in effect cutting off the oxygen supply to the rest of the world. In my view, this is in complete violation of the spirit of the Bretton Woods agreement which allowed the U.S. dollar to become the primary world reserve currency. I also believe that is an outright violation of International law.
Furthermore, FATCA is the “enabler of place of birth taxation” which operates to impose U.S. taxation on the the residents and citizens of other countries and ultimately on the country itself.
Now, I have a simple question for you and all others (including I suppose the Democrats) who as a matter of principle support FATCA.
My question is this:
Do you think it is immoral to cut off the oxygen supply of the world financial system just because you think you can get away with it? As President Clinton once implied:
FATCA is not only an egregious violation of the sovereignty of other nations, but the assumptions it is based on (cutting off the world oxygen supply) is immoral in the extreme. But, it gets worse. Because under the FATCA rules, the United States alone defines who is a “U.S. Person”, FATCA can (and will be used) to extend U.S. taxation to more and more people who are citizens and residents of other countries. The effect of U.S. taxation of citizens and residents of other countries is that the U.S. can use “citizenship taxation” to remove capital from other nations. (For example London Mayor Boris Johnson)
Now, let’s move on to the FATCA “same country exemption”.
To promote the “same country exemption” is:
1. To clearly accept the absolute immorality of FATCA and principle of imposing U.S. taxation on the citizens and residents of other nations; but also to
2. Beg the United States Government to tweak the law so that this unconscionable act of immorality does NOT apply to one specific group – that is a subset of U.S. citizens abroad.. And for the record, that specific groups is NOT Americans abroad as a group. Rather it is Americans Abroad who are U.S. tax compliant. (The latter condones the immorality of citizenship taxation and does NOTHING whatsoever to assist the millions of Americans abroad who never even knew about citizenship taxation.)
Therefore, those who support the “same country exemption” (whoever they may be) are actually:
1. Supporting immoral laws in general and FATCA in particular; and
2. Saying, well please exempt me from this immorality and we will “wink wink” and NOT call your attention to the fact that you are immoral in the extreme.
My conclusion:
Individuals and groups who support the “same country exemption” are actually enablers of immoral laws that are a breach of the spirit of the Bretton Woods agreement, are designed to impose taxes on the citizens and residents of other countries and extract capital from those countries.
Afterthought:
I have not even mentioned the absurd and unfair costs that FATCA compliance impose on non-U.S. banks and on the residents of other countries. As one of many examples see:
http://www.repealfatca.com/index.asp?idmenu=4&idsubmenu=102&title=bahamas-urged-to-lobby-over-fatca
Afterthought 2:
FATCA is one component of U.S. policies which Juan Zarate would call part of “Tresaury’s War” (google the title) and Ian Bremmer (google) would call the “Weaponization of Finance”. It’s really the U.S. saying to the rest of the world:
It’s our world. Get used to it.
Afterthought 3:
A previous comment on these issues included:
https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/01/17/us-citizenship-based-taxation-and-fatca-are-egregious-violations-of-the-master-nationality-rule/comment-page-1/#comment-995056
@George
I dont disagree with you, but there are also American expats caught up in this web of deceit. Even someone with an american passport only, living in another country should not be tormented by their homeland, which is what the Reps abroad and the Dems abroad are all about in their fight for liberty. I don`t really condemn either of them and see them more as allies, even if they have different approaches. We are ALL suffering.
On another note- I once checked out the difference between “nationalism” and “patriotism”. Among other things, the difference seems to be that with nationalism, one believes that one`s nation is superior to other nations, whereas patriotism is simply love for ones nation and its values. That is a huge difference in narcissistic psychopathology, and nationalism leads to wars whereas patriotism is basically benevolent.
@USCitizenAbroad
What you are saying is absolutely true and I am also totally and sickenly appalled at the immorality involved with FATCA, but I do remember the idea being spread that it is absolutely impossible to unhinge CBT. I think this was their premiss. If they had had any hope, I think they would have also wanted to end CBT. They really have concluded ( and I think with boots on the ground in Washington) that this would be impossible to achieve.
@R talbot. Your comment is typical of the arrogance of the Democrats towards life long supporters.
I come from four generations of Democrats. I do not vote in U.S. Elections because U.S. Consulate told me 42 years ago I was “permanently and irrevocably” relinquishing U.S. Citizenship.
My parents, grandparents, great grandparents and great great grandparents must be rolling over in their graves at what is happening. My ancestors’ homelands of Sweden, Germany and Ireland did not stalk them for money or invade their personal privacy.
I do not care if someone is Reoublican, Democrat, liberal, Conservative, right wing, left wing or turkey wing. I just want the United States out of my life.
Those few life long Democrats who were not already furious at the Democrats before your comment probably are now.
Much of the over-used excuse for condoning anything carried out by the US is rather *blind patriotism* as has been discussed here before. Loyalty based on *my country right or wrong*. What happened to *of the people, by the people, for the people*?
An interesting post was one by usxcanada in 2012: https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/04/27/breaking-ranks/. From that post and the book discussed, Saying No, Breaking Ranks, and Heeding the Voice of Conscience in Dark Times,
I personally saw the sting of this blind patriotism reason long after I left the US, long after it was my choice to become a Canadian citizen and had children born here in Canada. I hired a Washington, DC immigration / nationality lawyer regarding how I could rid my son of what the US defined his automatically acquired US citizenship, who reported:
So – entrapment for, to me, blind patriotism — no common sense in the result of bad law. It is not up to the Department of State to determine the preciousness of my son’s unasked for US citizenship but they also say that such a person must not have the influence or help from anyone on *their* decision for renunciation AND a parent, a guardian or a parent does not have the right to act on behalf of any person without *requisite mental capacity*, even with a court order.
Will the latest, the Senate Finance Committee, take this egregious collateral damage into account? No one, NO ONE, should have to work around this problem. The problem should be resolved with just law that will affect anyone with some mental incapacity.
If the US cannot change (only one example of stubborn US blind patriotism?) to Residence-Based Taxation to fix this, then at least do something about anyone ever being entrapped into the consequences of US citizenship-based taxation. Change then to an OPT-IN to US citizenship, with full disclosure on all consequences as well as any benefits, if the person’s facts allow. Instead the US has an OPT-OUT. If CBT and DOS regulations would entrap one person into the consequences we see, the law is unjust and needs to be changed one way or another. Just one example of how US blind patriotism trumps common sense.
Or, at least that’s the way I see it.
@Calgary
Sadly- they have their own brand of “common sense”. Its called “We need money and we don`t care how we get it.” 🙁
A way too large proportion of US commenters in US media articles that I have commented on have replied to me regarding my family’s (and by extension many other families’) situation say nothing about *we need money and we don’t care how we get it* (although, you’re right, they may think I and my son have some fair share of their US debt). They tell me, in my description of their blind patriotism, that if I (which I told them I already have) or my son wants to leave the best country in the world, as Conservative MPs told my son in Canadian Parliament, *Just Renounce*. The US commenters add *don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out* — and often add *and don’t come back* which, believe me, I won’t. I made that decision decades ago by my choice, not by any accident of place of birth, to be a Canadian citizen — and when the US warned me that I would lose my US citizenship by becoming a Canadian citizen (effectively, *don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out*).
@R Talbot,
We must be Ranting Republicans? What a glorious example of the Exceptional American Thinker.
If you actually spent any time examining this website, you would discover this group of “Americans” is actually several DIFFERENT groups of people:
1. Those born in the US to non-US parents, that were raised in their (and their parents’) home country. These people have no identity as an American.
2. Those born in, raised in, and citizens of a country other than the US, to at least one parent that held US citizenship. These people have no identity as an American.
3. Those born and raised in the US that chose to move to another country, and obtained citizenship in that country. They were told they were losing US citizenship by doung so, and were fine with that.
4. Those born and raised in the US that chose to move to another country, but did not obtain that citizenship.
I could go on, there are many here with varying circumstances. A large percentage of us have no tie to the US, except for the birth place.
We don’t care about the constant squabble the US has between Democrats and Republicans. You are a foreign country. We just want you to go away, and get the hell out of our FOREIGN lives.
@Calgary
Nobody is going to admit to any form of corruption. “Patriotism” is just a form of rationalisation with which to explain everything else away.
There is an R Talbot-Stern who Linked In says:
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/rtalbotstern
@R Talbot: Democrats Abroad dirty little secret is Democrats Abroad do not care one iota about anything except sending Democrats to Washington.
Democrats Abroad also promote untruths and refuse to correct them or even acknowledge them. Here is information about untruths Democrats Abroad communicated about our Canadian lawsuit
http://maplesandbox.ca/2014/adcs-asks-democrats-abroad-to-correct-misinformation/
ADCS respectfully asked for the information to be corrected. ADCS followed up. Requests were ignored,
FATCA is not about tax evasion. It is about control and punishment. If it was about tax evasion, it would focus on the real tax cheats,including Democrat Secretary of Commerce (who neglected to report $80 million in income due to a “clerical error”) instead of stalking people around the world with minimal connection to the United States.
Blaze,
Bingo!
https://www.democratsabroad.org/sites/default/files/DAA_AGM_2010_Standing_Resolutions.pdf
@Calgary: Of course, we do not know if R Talbot is Robert Talbot Stern. R Talbot might want to clear that up for us.
@R Talbot: A few years ago, someone asked me if I was a Republican. I went ballistic. I yelled “How can you know me and call me a Republican?!? Call me anything you want. Call me a bitch. Call me a slut. Don’t call me a Republican.” Then I calmly explained I am not even an American. Today I would scream “Call me anything you want. Don’t call me an American.”
Back to the topic of dirty little secrets. Do you think Democrat U.S. Rep Alan Grayson filed FBARs for the millions he has incorporated in funds in the Cayman Islands? Will FATCA go after the potty-mouthed Democrat?
Sorry, I didn’t provide the link for the article about the popular potty-mouthed Democrat with millions in incorporated funds in the Cayman Islands.
http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/potty-mouthed-alan-grayson-and-his-offshore-investments/2229497
Hmm. Does that sound like tax evasion to anyone else? Oh wait. No one has invested, so no one is evading. Then again, the Congressman has not declared any income from those funds. Way too confusing for me. I hope Grayson filed his FBARs with FinCEN. Let them figure it out. Because surely the good Democrat does not mind FinCEN and IRS having information about him, does he?
@ Blaze
I actually wrote an e-mail to Alan Grayson a year ago to ask him to support Sen. Rand’s repeal FATCA bill. I didn’t realize he was that wealthy but for him and anyone else in the USA, there should be no crime in having an overseas account. It makes sense for those with loads of money to not keep it all in one country, in case the economy crashes or bail-ins begin or something. I don’t know why he gets no income from his overseas account but I know why I don’t on my local chequing account — no interest. The rate was so low it was a nuisance keeping track of the pennies in interest so I asked for a no interest account. I’m sure it’s something way more complex with Rep. Grayson though. Question is did he do everything above board?
RE Those born and raised in the US that chose to move to another country, and obtained citizenship in that country. They were told they were losing US citizenship by doung so, and were fine with that.
IF we took a citizenship of another country DID we automatically lose US citizenship ?
Too simple, JakDac. Many were told just that decades ago when they became Canadian citizens. I was one of them. I certainly took it as a warning that we would lose our US citizenship if we became Canadian citizens. I lived my life in Canada as the Canadian citizen I thought I was with my full OK that I lost my US citizenship. Decades later came my OMG moment, learning what I know now. What we weren’t told back then is that there was a piece of paper called a Certificate of Loss of Nationality which we now need to prove to our local, Canadian (and other country) *foreign financial institutions* that we are no longer US citizens. I know of only one person who received a CLN, a fellow Brocker, who wrote a letter to Henry Kissinger expressing that he was through with the US — that got him a CLN in the mail. Now we have long lines and the increasing renunciation fees to be able to renounce US citizenship and get that CLN or to claim a relinquishment from a past act, which has to be approved in Washington, DC to finally obtain that CLN.
I think that’s my favourite CLN story. And boy did I wish I’d done something like that! Cause I’d never heard of a CLN til 2011. Just to be clear, I’d like to add that there was one other step in his obtaining the CLN, though no big deal, especially compared to the process today.
The letter he wrote to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger in 1976, expressing his disapproval of US policy, in which he also mentioned that he was through with the US, having become a citizen of Canada, didn’t result in a CLN by return mail. It resulted in State Dept sending him a CLN application – which really surprised him, as he’d never heard of a CLN prior to then. The application was the forerunner of today’s DS-4079 questionnaire. It was only 2 pages then and you could mail it in by post, which he did. Piece of cake.
@ JakDac,
From what I’ve learned in recent years, apparently it wasn’t automatic in my era (the 70s), although both governments told me it was. It appears from my research that at that time the US presumed that if you took the citizenship of another country that you had the intention of relinquishing and therefore lost your citizenship, but it was a rebuttable presumption.
Interestingly, re rebutting the presumption, here at Brock in 2012 I learned that at least one US consulate (Vancouver, I think) at one time in the 70s actually acted upon information received about persons who naturalised, as a couple of people reported they had received letters from the consulate, telling them that they were aware of the person’s naturalisation and if you wish to retain your US citizenship, to reply within (I think it was) 60 days. Mr. Ladybug had kept his letter all these years and posted it. I, and apparently most of us, never got such a letter.
I recall prior to naturalising that the Canada Immigration officer told me that they notify the US of all US citizens who naturalise here, and I figured that took care of closing the books on my US citizenship. So it never occurred to me to notify the US govt nor did anyone ever suggest I do nor did anyone ever mention CLN.
At any rate, it was always my understanding that I had terminated my US citizenship upon naturalising, so I never acted as a USC. So, when I finally heard about CLNs (2011), I applied for and received one attesting to my termination of citizenship 35 years earlier.
Due to several court decisions, the administrative presumption was reversed in 1990, so since then the presumption is that you had the intention of retaining your US citizenship, also a rebuttable (TG!) presumption.
I so am glad I didn’t get on this Democrats Abroad Australia mailing list. I am an Australian citizen who just happens to be born in the US. I also hated Ronald Reagan and the Bushes with a passion. I am also not US tax compliant so being on that list could have been disastrous to me. I will do all it takes to be under the radar.
@Em Bee
I agree. Of course it should be no crime for a US resident American to have an account abroad.
Many have elderly parents living outside the US and need to have an account or have signature authority over their parent’s accounts.
Some (like my son in law) would like to buy a vacation home such as beach apt in Mexico or a ski apartment in Canada or Europe. They certainly can’t now!
Some would like to hedge their bets against a fall in the US dollar.
FATCA and CBT has made prisoners of them all whether they reside in the US or abroad.
‘Same country exception’ will not change this, they will just become prisoners of their resident country and that’s only IF the banks continue to accept them. They have TOXIC stamped all over them.
The US encourages foreigners to buy vacation homes in Florida , yet they consider it suspect for an American to want to do the same abroad.