Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit: November 1, 2014 legal bill will be paid on time! / Poursuite canadienne contre la FATCA et le gouvernement canadien : nos frais légaux du 1er novembre 2014 seront payés à temps !

[We now have a NEW POST taking us up to February 1, 2015. This post will be retired from service.]

THE AUTUMN 2014 UPDATE

Dear Donors,

Together, we reached our goal of $100,000 to pay the November 1 legal bill 11 days ahead of schedule!

Thank you Canadian donors from coast to coast and our friends from around the world for your generosity, support and determination — and especially for not being afraid.

The name of our non-profit corporation is the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty.”

We were very deliberate in including in our name the word “sovereignty”, which forms a cornerstone of our Claims against the Government of Canada.

Canada and dozens of other countries throughout the world gave into a bully because their “leaders” were afraid of harm caused by a trading “partner” — and they gave their sovereignties away.

Help us convince by example the Leaders and Governments of all countries worldwide that they should return their sovereignties back to their Peoples.

Please continue to support our lawsuit.

“Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.” (Helen Keller)

— Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, and the ADCS-ADSC team

Chers donateurs,

Ensemble, nous avons atteint notre but d’amasser 100 000 $ pour payer notre facture légale du 1er novembre 11 jours d’avance !

Un gros merci à vous, donateurs canadiens, et à nos amis de tous les coins du monde pour votre grande générosité, soutien et détermination. Et surtout pour votre courage.

Le nom de notre organisme sans but lucratif est « l’Alliance pour la défense de la souveraineté canadienne ».

Nous avons choisi délibérément le mot « souveraineté » puisqu’il constitue la base fondamentale de nos revendications envers le gouvernement du Canada.

Le Canada et des dizaines d’autres pays se sont pliés devant l’intimidation des États-Unis parce que leurs « leaders » ont eu peur des menaces de notre « partenaire » commercial. Ils ont donc vendu leur souveraineté à rabais.

Aidez-nous à convaincre les dirigeants et les gouvernements de tous ces pays qu’ils se doivent de remettre leur souveraineté à leurs peuples.

S’il vous plaît, continuez à soutenir notre cause.

« Seuls, nous pouvons faire si peu. Ensemble, nous pouvons faire beaucoup. » (Helen Keller)

— Ginny, Gwen et toute l’équipe de l’ADCS-ADSC

DONATE to www.adcs-adsc.ca (ADSC en français).

2,221 thoughts on “Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit: November 1, 2014 legal bill will be paid on time! / Poursuite canadienne contre la FATCA et le gouvernement canadien : nos frais légaux du 1er novembre 2014 seront payés à temps !

  1. The trouble for Canada really is, People like Mr. Keddy, who obviously is uneducated on Citizenship. Canada is declaring every single citizen who came here from another country, is a second class Canadian. In reality, I, born here, an Aboriginal from Canada, is now a second class Canadian due to Marriage. I ask the question, who is a Canadian? Do they exist? Canada day will mean a huge day of Protest for me. The shirts will be ready, and I might even end up on TV if I can find a reporter to show my shirt to. The anger I have, will be shown by my disgrace for the Cons who have done this to Canada. With more attention, the ADCS-ADSC website will be promoted along with the Canada I believed in my entire life!

  2. Sent in my $250. Anything to place pimple on the ass of the limp Harper government. And I’m not even Canadian. Sickens me how spineless these political bastards are thinking they know best selling out so many individuals.
    Look forward the fact that as easy as the Harper spineless troup succumbed, they will bend over just as easy to any pressure we place on them to stand up for what’s right.
    They already proved they are all pussies. So beat these bastards bloody for their cowardly show to
    the US treasury scum.

  3. Profile of David Cay Johnston:
    http://law.syr.edu/deans-faculty-staff/profile.aspx?fac=227

    Interviewed on Coast To Coast AM by George Noori last night.
    http://www.coasttocoastam.com
    OR Archived at: http://www.cknw.com
    click on the 10pm time slot and move through his interview with Mr. Johnston.

    From the interview:

    In the first half, Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter and author David Cay Johnston discussed the great inequality that exists in wealth and income in the United States. In the next five years, because of government policies, “we’re going to see much worse conditions for the bottom half of Americans, and a continued concentration [of wealth] at the top,” he forecast. According to official IRS data, since the recession ended in 2009, the bottom 90% of Americans saw their income fall by 2%, “but the people at the top have done incredibly well,” he detailed, adding that of all the increased income that 316 million Americans had, a whopping third of it went to just 16,000 households.

    Many American corporations have figured out loopholes to avoid paying immediate taxes by funneling their money into offshore subsidiaries– amounting to a staggering seven trillion in cash, he reported. Further, in some 20 states, corporations have a deal in which they can keep their workers’ state income tax– in effect taking away money that would normally go to schools and state projects. America is moving away from being a democracy, and turning into an oligarchy, in which the rich rule, and citizens have become too passive about being taxed for such things as a local sports stadium or an oil pipeline, he noted.

  4. monalisa and others outside (and of course inside) of Canada who have made donations,

    Thanks so much for supporting the Canadian Charter Challenge!!!! You have many friends here who appreciate that those outside Canada are helping the cause. Cheers.

  5. If we are successful in Canada, this will set a precedent that other countries can follow.

  6. @NativeCanadian
    I wish I could agree that Gerald Keddy’s conduct is the result of ignorance about citizenship. I think it is something much more nefarious than that. The IRS/Harper narrative is to portray that this ONLY affects rich American tax cheats. People like you, me and everyone else here blow that narrative out of the water. In order for this to be palatable to Canadians, you present the narrative that this does not hurt Canadians, only US persons who are trying to avoid their tax obligations to the US. In order to propagate that lie, you try to twist the facts to fit your narrative – in short, you lie about it. Keddy is not offering for re-election, so he was picked to do the dirty work. It is not a task that would be accepted by anyone with integrity, but that seems to be the first thing lost when you become a politician. The fact that someone like Keddy, who is working to sacrifice Canada’s sovereignty, denies the Canadian-ness of those fighting here to protect Canada’s sovereignty is the height of hypocrisy.

  7. @CanadianCop Agreed. The term “Canadian” will be forever altered to only apply to those born in Canada. This hurts all others who immigrated here to live a better life. Those persons, are hyphenated “Canadians” now. This should not be tolerated. I will, once July 1st comes along, be letting every minority I run into know that they are not fully Canadian. They will need to see this site to find out why and what they need to “fear” as this government changed the definition of “Canadian citizen”. This story needs to be told.

  8. In an email above I asked Canada MP Gerald Keddy to retract, correct, and apologize for an incorrect statement he made to a House Finance Committee. I did not want Mr. Keddy to mislead Parliament or the public. I only raised with Mr. Keddy the single issue of the retraction.

    I asked that Mr. Keddy retract his statement to the Committee that several Canadian registered savings vehicles (RESPs, RDSPs) are NOT taxed by the U.S. IRS. By making this inaccurate statement, Parliament might believe that US tax rules imposed on U.S. persons in Canada are “benign”::

    https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/06/01/its-time/comment-page-7/#comment-1930509

    A few hours after sending the email I received a “response” from his Executive Assistant. Please read the response (or lack thereof) below.

    If you don’t like Mr. Keddy’s response to my specific request for a retraction, why don’t you donate more money right now to our legal challenge fund?

    Dear Dr. Kish,

    Thank you for your phone call and e-mail.

    It is true, FATCA has raised a number of concerns in Canada. However, the agreement addresses those concerns by relying on the existing framework under the Canada-U.S. Tax Treaty. CRA will not assist the IRS in collecting U.S. taxes and no new taxes will be imposed. In our negotiations we obtained a number of concessions, including exempting certain accounts like RRSPs, RDSPs, TFSAs, etc. from FATCA reporting.

    Without an agreement in place, our financial institutions would still have to comply with FATCA. Which would have required banks to:

    · report information directing to the IRS

    · deny basic banking services to clients in certain situations.

    Furthermore, both banks and their clients would have been subject to a 30% withholding tax. With an agreement in place, this won’t happen.

    Sincerely,

    [ ]
    Executive Assistant
    to Gerald Keddy Member of Parliament
    South Shore-St. Margarets
    Parliamentary Secretary of the Minister of National Revenue and for the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency

  9. Native Canadian,

    I am not confident Mr. Keddy would use the term “Canadian” to refer to my Canadian-born son, despite what he stated:

    http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/Parlvu/TimeBandit/PowerBrowser_SilverLight.aspx?ContentEntityId=11861&EssenceFormatID=480&date=20140529&lang=en

    Mr. Keddy re RESP / RDSP and US Citizenship of Children Born in Canada to US Parent(s): start at 35:37.
    Mr. Rankin re Conversation with me regarding my son’s situation (I absolutely think that is what he refers to): start at 38:46.

    Is Mr. Keddy accurate re RESP and RDSP accounts not being taxed by the US and re Children born in Canada to US Parents and not registered with the US by the time they are 19, that they will have to APPLY for US citizenship to receive US citizenship? Can I can take Mr. Keddy’s statement to my “foreign financial institution”?

    Did Mr. Keddy say that there would be no US tax on Canadian RESPs and RDSPs?

    I have paid tax to the US on something – it may be on the RDSP I hold for my son or it may be on the TFSA that I have.

    Here is my question to my US tax lawyer re how my son’s RDSP was US-taxed to me:

    The answer to your question is a bit nuanced.

    1. If the sponsor of an RDSP (or RESP for that matter) is a US person then (US person analysis of the beneficiary is irrelevant):

    a. The income generated by the RDSP is taxed to the US person sponsor currently as it is earned

    b. The grant is taxed to the US person sponsor when it is distributed to the beneficiary

    c. US person sponsor must file 3520A annually

    d. US person sponsor must file 3520 annually

    2. If the sponsor of a RDSP (or RESP) is NOT a US person, AND the beneficiary is a US person then:

    a. The income generated by the RDSP (RESP) is taxed to the US beneficiary currently as it is earned

    b. The grant is taxed to the US person beneficiary when it is distributed

    c. US person beneficiary must file 3520 annually (no 3520A)

    Neither RDSPs nor RESPs are covered by the Treaty.

    I’d say that says the RDSP and the RESP are taxed by the US.

    Will our local Canadian foreign financial institutions will then recognize that if children born to US parent(s) were not registered with the US, they will NOT be determined US citizens?

    Does this mean that the US advice (below) I have regarding my son is incorrect?

    My question to US Department of State, Office of Legal Affairs:

    From: caroltapanila
    Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2014 2:55 PM
    To: Ask-OCS-L
    Subject: Question re US Citizenship never registered with the US
    Importance: High

    Can you provide me your / Department of State opinion on the question of claim to US citizenship.

    I ask you this in determination of just how my son (and others like him) may have his *supposed* automatically acquired US citizenship renounced / rescinded. Otherwise, persons like my son with a ‘mental incapacity’ are ENTRAPPED into an extraneous US citizenship. My son was born in Canada to two US citizen parents who soon after become Canadian citizens, never registered with the US as a US birth abroad, never lived in the US, never had any benefit from the US – only from Canada where his family and his supports are located. He (and others like him) cannot renounce that US citizenship because he does not understand the concept of citizenship and must have no influence from anyone (like me, his mother/trustee) in his decision to renounce that US citizenship. I have been advised by the US Consulate that neither does a parent, a guardian or a trustee have the right to renounce that US citizenship on such a person’s behalf, even with a court order.

    I want to know from you if my son would have to make a claim to that US citizenship, which neither can he do because of his lack of mental incapacity.

    It seems to me that any law that would entrap a person with ‘mental incapacity’ into US (or any other citizenship) is bad and immoral law. To me, it should be a choice if the facts prevail – or an “opt-into US citizenship”, rather than an “opt-out of” US citizenship, which as I can see and I hope you can see is nothing more than “entrapment”.

    May I have your views on just how to cut any ties to the US if indeed they are there, enslaving that person / their family to year-after-year-after-year cost of administration compliance with the US? I have been able to renounce my US citizenship and have a Certificate of Loss of Nationality. I would like that same option for my son, but it seems that cannot happen for any amount of money paid to US tax and immigration / nationality lawyers.

    My appreciation for your reply on such a situation.

    My answer from Department of State, Overseas Citizens Services, Office of Legal Affairs:

    From: Kavaler, Howard
    Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2014 9:55 AM
    To: caroltapanila
    Subject: RE: Question re US Citizenship never registered with the US

    Ms. Tapanila:

    If your son was born in Canada to two U..S. citizens, at least one of whom had a residence in the United States prior to his birth, your son is a U.S. citizen pursuant to Section 301(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. Your understanding of U.S. citizenship law is absolutely correct. U.S. citizenship is a status that is personal to the U.S. citizen and may not be renounced by a parent or a legal guardian. If your son seeks to renounce his citizenship, it will be incumbent upon him to demonstrate that (a) his action in renouncing his U.S. citizenship is the product of his own free will and (b) that he fully understands the consequences attendant to the relinquishment of his U.S. citizenship.

    Howard Kavaler

    which agrees with the information that I paid for from an immigration / nationality lawyer from Washington, DC,
    to confirm my son’s US status and give possibilities for his renunciation. Result was that my children were US citizens from the moment of their births. And, straight from the US Department of State:

    DOS persons he talked with have “sympathy” for such cases. However, the developmentally disabled person will have to have FULL understanding of what he’s doing; if any question of lack of comprehension and grasping meaning and importance of ramifications, they could NOT approve such a case. From DOS point of view, US citizenship is precious and they have therefore established fundamental requirements for “compelling reason”. Even though there is the risk that a person’s financial resources could run out before his/her life was over, they will never approve a renunciation for financial / economic reasons. DOS has NEVER had such a renunciation case approved due to “compelling circumstances”. I could sue – persons he talked with at DOS are SURE no one would ever win such a case as the courts view the discretionary action that DOS has would take precedence.

  10. @ Stephen Kish
    Grrrrrrrr! Keddy and his staff have no conscience.
    @ ALL
    PLEASE Brockers donate to ADCS.

  11. “Without an agreement in place, our financial institutions would still have to comply with FATCA”. Another misleading statement.

    Should be:

    In order for our quasi-Canadian financial institutions to remain invested in the US without penalty and breaking Canadian law, the Canadian government must make discrimination against Canadian citizens and residents legal in Canada. Greedy traitors, all of them.

  12. If you don’t like Mr. Keddy’s response to my specific request for a retraction, why don’t you donate more money right now to our legal challenge fund?

    Done – though not as much this time as my dislike for the likes of Mr. Keddy’s tactics dictate — my bank account would quickly become overdrawn.

  13. Just a quick note to anyone who heard the conversation about Fatca on Short wave. there were around 300 people listening. Welcome to the site and please, learn about what the US government is doing and how the Canadian Government was told what to do under US threats. Thank you!

  14. Hey Brockers, I have started thinking more and more on the fact that a cost analysis was never done on the Canadian IGA.

    A million Canadians may all of a sudden find themselves to be declared US taxpayers with tax and filing obligations.

    It is NOT going to be tax neutral for Canada CRA.

    These people are going to find themselves writing checks to the USA and then I assume taking a credit on their Canadian returns.

    Over just a ten year period, how many billions will that cost CRA?

    Anyone seen any estimates?

  15. Stephen: I have sent an email off to Mr. Keddy re: his misstatement concerning his belief that Canadians will not be affected by the FATCA IGA. I’m not sure how much good it will do. Last time I sent an email to Mr. Keddy I received a form reply suggesting that I contact my own MP! This time I signed my name without my city of residence. Maybe it will have made it through to him this time.

  16. @Muzzled, Thanks for sending the email to Mr. Keddy. I expect that he will refuse to retract his false statement, but perhaps the NDP and Liberals who were cc’d will pursue this when the amendments are discussed in Parliament.

    The most logical response to Mr. Keddy is a donation today to our legal challenge fund.

    Donors might also want to send Mr. Keddy an email and let him know what we are up to.

    @All,

    Mailed cheques have just begun to reach the post office box in Toronto. NICE AMOUNTS — THANK YOU ALL!!!

    Today’s letters included Euro cash — always welcome.

  17. A second batch of cheques came in the afternoon post.

    I now have a message for a very special Canadian:

    “The twig in the closet has arrived.”

    I repeat:

    “The twig in the closet has arrived.”

    Some day this twig will grow up and…

  18. I think we have a natural ally in Leadnow.ca, a progressive activist organisation.

    From their webpage:

    “Leadnow.ca is an independent advocacy organization that brings generations of Canadians together to achieve progress through democracy.

    “We’re working together to build a stronger democracy that protects our environment, creates economic opportunity while increasing equality, and guarantees that everyone receives the care they need.”

    The leadership is quite young; us (very often) oldsters partnering with Leadnow.ca would be interesting and worthwhile.

    Here is their home page:

    http://www.leadnow.ca/

    Here are their current campaigns:

    http://www.leadnow.ca/campaign/

    I suggest someone from the ACDS Board of Directors contact them.

    Cheers.

  19. Dang. Did it again. I used my real name in the previous posting!

    What the heck. It’s ok. Just understand that this is the same person. Our opponents trade in fear. Need to get over it.

  20. @Andrew: I contacted leadnow within a couple of days of the IGA being announced. No reply. It may be worth contacting them again.

    I also contacted Canadian Constitutional Federation a few times. Again, no reply. It may be worth while trying again.

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