Liberty and justice for all United States persons abroad

Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit: November 1, 2014 legal bill will be paid on time! / Poursuite canadienne contre la FATCA et le gouvernement canadien : nos frais légaux du 1er novembre 2014 seront payés à temps !

[We now have a NEW POST taking us up to February 1, 2015. This post will be retired from service.]

THE AUTUMN 2014 UPDATE

Dear Donors,

Together, we reached our goal of $100,000 to pay the November 1 legal bill 11 days ahead of schedule!

Thank you Canadian donors from coast to coast and our friends from around the world for your generosity, support and determination — and especially for not being afraid.

The name of our non-profit corporation is the “Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty.”

We were very deliberate in including in our name the word “sovereignty”, which forms a cornerstone of our Claims against the Government of Canada.

Canada and dozens of other countries throughout the world gave into a bully because their “leaders” were afraid of harm caused by a trading “partner” — and they gave their sovereignties away.

Help us convince by example the Leaders and Governments of all countries worldwide that they should return their sovereignties back to their Peoples.

Please continue to support our lawsuit.

“Alone we can do so little. Together we can do so much.” (Helen Keller)

— Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, and the ADCS-ADSC team

Chers donateurs,

Ensemble, nous avons atteint notre but d’amasser 100 000 $ pour payer notre facture légale du 1er novembre 11 jours d’avance !

Un gros merci à vous, donateurs canadiens, et à nos amis de tous les coins du monde pour votre grande générosité, soutien et détermination. Et surtout pour votre courage.

Le nom de notre organisme sans but lucratif est « l’Alliance pour la défense de la souveraineté canadienne ».

Nous avons choisi délibérément le mot « souveraineté » puisqu’il constitue la base fondamentale de nos revendications envers le gouvernement du Canada.

Le Canada et des dizaines d’autres pays se sont pliés devant l’intimidation des États-Unis parce que leurs « leaders » ont eu peur des menaces de notre « partenaire » commercial. Ils ont donc vendu leur souveraineté à rabais.

Aidez-nous à convaincre les dirigeants et les gouvernements de tous ces pays qu’ils se doivent de remettre leur souveraineté à leurs peuples.

S’il vous plaît, continuez à soutenir notre cause.

« Seuls, nous pouvons faire si peu. Ensemble, nous pouvons faire beaucoup. » (Helen Keller)

— Ginny, Gwen et toute l’équipe de l’ADCS-ADSC

DONATE to www.adcs-adsc.ca (ADSC en français).

2,221 thoughts on “Canadian FATCA IGA lawsuit: November 1, 2014 legal bill will be paid on time! / Poursuite canadienne contre la FATCA et le gouvernement canadien : nos frais légaux du 1er novembre 2014 seront payés à temps !

  1. Superb letter Mr. A

    I just learned Mike Sullivan was born in the United States from a list another Brocker sent to me.

    I found this interview with Catherine Clark (daughter of Maureen McTeer and Joe Clark)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-N_nUFNOeOs

    Mr. Sullivan was born in Detroit, but moved to Windsor with his family when he was five. His mother went to Detroit to give birth to a younger sibling three weeks after the move (What a curse that may be!)

    He says his parents were always interested in American politics. He also says they always voted NDP when he was young. That likely means he became a Canadian citizen with his family when he was a minor–and we know what that means. If that is the case, the US Department of State will not accept consider that relinquishing through naturalization as a Canadian.

    He could probably make a case for relinquishment because he’s an elected MP. However, he was not elected until 2011–well after 2004.

    He worked for the CBC from 1974-1984, so that might count as a relinquishing act, but we don’t know if he has made that case or if he even knows he should.

    Someone needs to talk to him. Do you think he realizes he personally is caught in this trap? Is anyone in his riding? (York Sout-Weston).

  2. @ Blaze
    Whatever Mike Sullivan’s justifications for not being eligible for a US citizen tag (and he should not be tagged as such), he still has that “Born in the USA” matter to deal with as far his financial institutions are concerned. No wonder he spoke so well in the HofC debate. He understands.

  3. @ calgary411
    Thanks for the links to those 2012 threads (before my arrival here). Fascinating. I’m watching the video of Mike Sullivan being interviewed by Catherine Clark (my goodness, I remember when she was born).

  4. Interesting that the honourable member is originally from the Windsor-Detroit area given the recent mention of the classic Gordon Lightfoot song “Black Day in July” in this thread. Seems to me that with that song Gordon–his surname notwithstanding–recognized that it was time to put his foot down regarding USG abuses. I hope ADCS/ADSC is ready to do the same.

  5. Stephen: Thanks for having all that information about the Bill C-13 court case at your fingertips. It was interesting to see the history of the case laid out from start to finish. Thanks also for your thoughts on the type of funding that may have been behind it. Legal aid for a criminal case like that certainly makes sense. It’s ironic that such funding is available for people who have been accused of truly heinous crimes but our upstanding, law-abiding community whose only crime is having some former association with the United States has to dig down into its own piggy-banks to pay for this nonsense.

  6. Mr. A: Bravo, Bravo, and BRAVO again for your marvelous letter to the Conservative MPs. You have spoken for every one of us here. Thank you! I think it would be wonderful if every senator could have a copy of this letter along with a plea that the Senate veto Bill C-31 as currently constituted. We still have a chance to stop the FATCA implementation act from becoming law. Your eloquence would be a valuable tool in this final attack. Thank you again!

  7. Muzzled,

    I was waiting for a reader to make your point.

    Yes, money from donors is the only way for us to move to litigation. You can imagine the responsibility all of us have to make this happen, knowing that Canadians are supporting our cause with their pension cheques.

  8. The following was distributed to the University of Saskatchewan Faculty Association to their members

    ======================================================

    From: U of S Faculty Association [mailto:usfa@usaskfaculty.ca]
    Sent: June-13-14 10:52 AM
    To: U of S Faculty Association
    Subject: USFA e-Letter: To members who are US citizens or otherwise have connections with the US:

    A class action Charter challenge is being launched against the Canada-US agreement implementing the US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) in Canada. Information is available from the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty at:
    http://www.adcs-adsc.ca/

  9. That is fabulous, NorthernShrike. We need to make every Canadian higher institution of learning aware of the Charter Challenge by encouraging the same information be included in newsletters to their members. An excellent tool for advocacy and awareness.

  10. NorthernShrike,

    THANK YOU!!

    Readers: Some of you are faculty or faculty emeritus at colleges and universities in Canada and in other countries and many have a “U.S. connection” — or just care about privacy rights.

    Please try to convince your faculty association to mention the ADCS-ADSC legal challenge in your newsletter.

    NorthernShrike teaches us that it can be done.

  11. @Calgary: Thanks for that link from the very early days. It was interesting reading the comments from over two years ago.

  12. @Calgary: Do you know if that is required by all the banks investment arms or just Scotia at this point?

    We should not have to answer any questions about citizenship, but on the question are you a citizen of Canada, USA or Other Country, most of us could honestly answer Canada. However, the next question on “US person” is very disturbing. It includes anyone born in United States, but makes no reference to relinquishing or renouncing US citizenship. A lot of people who do not know about this issue yet could get caught in the dragnet very easily by answering “Yes” simply because they were born in the US without understanding the consequences.

    Those are very similar to the questions Johnnb got from ScotiaMcLeod–and they have had a copy of his CLN for two years!

  13. @Em: We’re showing our age, but I also remember when Catherine Clark was born (Justin Trudeau, too!).

    I laughed at Catherine’s absolute shock when Mike Sullivan told her his parents talked about building a bomb shelter during the 1950s. I think most of us who grew up in the US in that era had parents who talked about it–but I only ever knew one family who did it. We just had canned goods in our basement in case we needed to hide out there from a nuclear attack from the Russians.

    We also had air raid drills at school where we all ducked under our desks as cover from those nuclear bombs that the Russians were sure to drop on us. Like those desks would protect us!

    Who would have ever thought today as we are seniors or close it it that we would be terrorized by the US simply because we choose to live somewhere else?

    On the subject of Catherine Clark’s parents, I remember what a huge issue it was when Joe Clark was elected leader of the Conservatives (1975 I think) and Maureen McTeer was a lawyer who hadn’t changed her name to her husband’s. I recall some people saying “If he can’t control his own wife, how can he run the country?”

    Last week, Ontario elected a gay female Premier who raised hands on stage with her own wife. During the campaign, I didn’t hear one word about Kathleen Wynne’s gender or sexual orientation. I think that’s an example of how far we’ve come.

    Hopefully, our legal challenge will mean that FATCA will one day be history, too.

  14. No, I don’t know, Blaze, but I wouldn’t be surprised if others do the same to protect their behinds. (Related: https://blogs.oracle.com/financialservices/entry/fatca_compliant_prove_it / interesting read of something aimed at the financial industry), ending with:

    One extremely important non-technical aspect that gets lost in the immediate requirements is the impact to existing and new customers. In my next post, I will discuss goal number two: Minimize impact to clients. In the meantime, do share with me your thoughts and how you prove your compliance with FATCA.

    I got that “information update” sheet by email — received by a ScotiaMcLeod client for update of information and return. Note that the form is for existing account(s), not just new account(s).

    Calling for information from anyone who receives such an update form from the investment arm of their financial institution…

  15. Does anyone know if the senators only choice is either to reject or accept Bill C-31in total or can they reject parts of it like Part 5 (FATCA implementation section)?

  16. Em, your question is a good one. Not being one who knows (or even cares at this point), I just went for it and sent the following to all Canadian Senators and to all journalists that had previously interviewed me. I incorporated the powerful email that Mr. A sent to Conservative MPs. I can only hope that Senators will read and really think about this issue, as they have last kick at it.

    Subject: My plea / my last attempt, asking Canadian Senators to take implementation of the US FATCA IGA out of Bill C-31

    I am but a 70-year-old Canadian, naturalized in 1975 as I chose Canada the country I wanted to live, work, raise my family, pay my taxes and be a part of society. I try to speak for my son and others like him who are ‘accidental Americans’ with a mental incapacity that prevents their renunciation of automatic (never registered for) US citizenship.

    Below is the video link* and **an email letter that was sent from someone yesterday, discussing just one aspect of what will happen to Canadian-born who are deemed US Persons, only one reason to remove from omnibus Bill C-31 implementation of the US FATCA IGA buried there, without proper study and a separate bill on its own merit. I will leave it to others to provide formal submissions; mine is informal, but I hope that each of you Canadian Senators charged to protect the rights of ALL Canadians will take the time to review what I send to you:

    *http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/Parlvu/TimeBandit/PowerBrowser_SilverLight.aspx?ContentEntityId=11957&EssenceFormatID=444&date=20140611&lang=en is a video of part of yesterday’s Parliamentary session. Starting at about 8:09:00 – NDP MP Mike Sullivan is trying to explain my son’s US tax situation over the heckling of some Conservative MPs.

    Although Mr. Sullivan was off on some detail of my family’s specific facts***, he got the main point across – that my son is unable to renounce (and parents, guardian, trustee of such a person cannot do so on his behalf, even with a court order). I can’t quite understand the Conservative talking point that — Conservative MP Allen seems to indicate that Canada might condone and encourage tax evasion by saying that the registered accounts are exempt from reporting – true for the banks being exempt from turning that account information over the CRA for transmission on to the US IRS. They are not exempt from the individual’s US responsibility.

    ***… thanks, MP Mike Sullivan (even though some of the details regarding my family’s story were not correct . I have not filed US tax returns for my son, but I did report the accounts that I hold for him on my Foreign Bank Account Report, including the Registered Disability Savings Plan, RDSP, that Canadian taxpayers actually contribute to — as I paid taxes to the US, besides paying US tax and accounting professionals for filing of complex and expensive Forms 3520 and 3520A for the account that is for the benefit of my son years from now). I continue to say my son and many others like him will be entrapped into US citizenship and therefore the requirements of expensive professional help for him to comply — for what would be, for him, no taxes owed (even though I did owe and had to pay US taxes on the RDSP I hold for my son).

    From: Mike.Sullivan.P9@parl.gc.ca
    Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:19 PM
    To: caroltapanila
    Subject: Re: Today’s Parliamentary session…

    Thanks for this, carol. Sorry I got the facts a little wrong but the point was not missed. They were quite rude. Brown (Leeds grenville), keddy, and storseth were the loudest.

    I’ll keep pushing.

    Mike

    From the author of the email below:

    Thank you for providing the video link that allowed me to watch the HOC session this afternoon. I did sign the letter with my real name and mentioned that I am a fourth generation Canadian.

    I will forward my email to MP’s Rempel & Rankin and of course you have my permission to send my letter to your journalists. The sad truth is that I probably will not get any replies from the Conservative MP’s and I wouldn’t be surprised if some (or all?) of them don’t even read it. However I feel that I have to do something. I continue to find strength and inspiration from Martin Luther King, such as: “Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter”.

    **Mr. A (says)
    Submitted on 2014/06/14 at 7:07 pm
    I have just sent this email:

    Sent: June-14-14 6:58:16 PM
    To: stephen.harper@parl.gc.ca
    Cc: gerald.keddy@parl.gc.ca; mike.allen@parl.gc.ca; gord.brown@parl.gc.ca; brian.storseth@parl.gc.ca; dave.vankesteren@parl.gc.ca; andrew.saxton@parl.gc.ca; mike.sullivan@parl.gc.ca; thomas.mulcair@parl.gc.ca; elizabeth.may@parl.gc.ca; james.rajotte@parl.gc.ca; mark.adler@parl.gc.ca

    To Conservative Members of Parliament:

    I would like to draw attention to the shameful behaviour in the House of Commons on the evening of June 11/14 of MP’s Gerald Keddy, Gord Brown and Brian Storseth while MP Mike Sullivan was attempting to speak. Their rude, insensitive heckling and laughter at the expense of a mentally disabled man can only be described as disgraceful, dishonourable and clearly far below the acceptable standard of conduct for any decent human being.

    Mr. Sullivan was describing the injustice of this man’s situation due to the reprehensible actions of the current United States Obama administration in attempting to enforce the USA’s immoral and unjust law of “citizenship based taxation”, whereby the US feels that it has the right to tax people who live, work, earn income and pay taxes in other countries – people who are citizens of other countries (in many cases from birth), people whose ties to the US are often distant (such as place of birth or parent’s place of birth many years or decades ago), and people who receive no services or benefits from the US.

    The United States is attempting to enforce this immoral law through FATCA, which violates privacy and Charter rights of many potentially affected Canadian citizens. With the passing of Bill C-31 the Conservative government has created a second class of Canadian citizens (of US origin, as defined solely by the US government) who will suffer discrimination on the basis of national or ethnic origin, in contrast to all other Canadian citizens. This is a violation of section 15 of Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The IGA enabling legislation also violates sections 7 and 8.

    Mr. Allen, stop saying that the IGA protects Canadians – it doesn’t. It has the potential to expose thousands of Canadians to the loss of personal financial privacy and the rapacious actions of the US Internal Revenue Service. Stop emphasizing that the information is being transferred with the treaty protections of the CRA – it is still ending up with the IRS.

    Mr. Allen, Mr. Keddy, Mr. Van Kesteren and Mr. Saxton, stop saying that so-called “US Persons” living in Canada have “always had the obligation to file US income tax returns”. Nonsense – there is no obligation to follow an unjust law. This US law of taxing citizens globally is a bad and immoral law that has no place in today’s world (it was first enacted in the 1860′s at the time of the American Civil War when the average American did not even pay income tax – hardly the world that we live in now). The only other country that does this is Eritrea, a country that is not a democracy and which has a poor record on human rights issues.

    Conservative MP’s, you have failed in your duty to protect all Canadian citizens from the criminal actions of the US government. As elected representatives of the Canadian people, this should be your highest priority – to uphold the rights of all Canadian citizens, not just the majority. The US government is committing extortion, forcing its will only through the threat of penalties (ie. the threat of withholding 30% of US source income to banks etc.). You are really only protecting the banks and you know it, but you don’t have the courage or integrity to admit it.

    Mr. Harper, you talk so much about standing up to bullies but you have failed in your chance to stand up to the US bully. You seem to care more about the sovereignty of the Ukraine and Israel than you do about the sovereignty of Canada. You are allowing the United States to enforce a foreign law on Canadian citizens living in Canada.

    Mr. Keddy, you have made inaccurate statements about the US taxation of income in registered accounts such as RESP’s. None of you seem to recognize that the US Internal Revenue Code is hostile to any savings vehicle that defers tax and that is “foreign” – Canadian registered savings accounts are both of these in the eyes of the IRS. Why should citizens of other countries have to share more personal financial information (ex. account balances, transactions etc.) to the IRS than true Americans resident in the US have to?

    I ask every Conservative MP:

    How would you feel about paying tax to a foreign country where you have never lived or worked?
    With money that was earned and taxed in Canada?
    About paying high-priced accountants hundreds or thousands of dollars to fill out multiple complex tax forms?
    Have any of you ever been the victim of injustice?
    Have any of you ever been a member of a persecuted minority?
    Have any of you ever been made to feel like a criminal when you have done nothing wrong?

    I challenge each of you to answer these questions truthfully.

    Mr. Keddy, Mr. Brown, Mr. Storseth, your disrespectful behaviour on June 11 demonstrates an appalling lack of class. What would the late Jim Flaherty, the father of a mentally disabled son himself, the creator of the RDSP, have thought about your making fun of such a person? You owe Ms. Carol Tapanila, this man’s mother, an apology. Mr. Storseth, as you live in Alberta, you should drive to Calgary and deliver it to her personally.

    Conservative MP’s, you have betrayed Canada by voting for Bill C-31.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Carol Tapanila
    Calgary, AB, Canada

  17. @ calgary411
    Good stuff (as always). I don’t know what the key is that would unlock the consciences of the senators but yours has to be pretty close to the right fit. I’m going to think a bit more on this and like my FINA “brief” it will take a few days to put something together. I’m almost considering doing an individual mailing like I once did with all of the MPs — this one would be one third that number so not so bad. I’m going to try to keep it short and that makes it even more difficult. It sounds like you think the Senate can actually remove Part 5 from the bill. That would certainly be a good thing. I still hope someone can answer my question though. @Tim perhaps?

  18. The Canadian Association of University Teachers would reach most academics in Canada. Unfortunately, I am not a member and have no contacts there.

  19. Blaze: Thank you for your marvelous reminder that yesterday’s laws and social mores can and do end up on history’s scrapheap. FATCA *and* CBT *will* go there too! I consider it an honour, albeit a very uncomfortable one at the moment, to be one of the footsoldiers in the army that will put them there!

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