Thanks very much, PatCanadian, for doing this interview!
Vancouver Sun: Metro Vancouver Woman Joins Movement to Drop US Citizenship
The author, Douglas Todd made contact with Pat, due to Pat having contacted the Vancouver Sun regarding their coverage of FATCA/US tax policy on Canadians.
He also asked Pat if she could help him get in touch with other people affected by this – several other Brockers/Sandboxers have – and also at the end of the article asks people to get in touch with him. I’m wondering (hoping!) that’s because he plans to do more coverage of this important issue.
It’s a complex issue with several, if not many, facets. If you’d like to share your story, or general information about the issue, and/or suggest another article focusing on a specific aspect/s of the problem, it may well be worth getting in touch with him.
“Accidental Americans” born in the US to Canadian parents but who returned as infants or children with their parents to live their lives in Canada OR born to US parent(s) in Canada should be good examples for these people who are, I think, talking about the person who only goes to one country or another for work, never becoming either a permanent resident or citizen of the other country. These really are two different “animals”. Some commenters just don’t understand that a good many of us have made our homes here and have no plan to ever return to live in the USA.
If someone wants, feel free to use the example of my son (the other kind of Accidental American), born in Canada, raised in Canada, never registered with the US, never lived in the US, never had any benefit from the US but who is still considered (by the US, not by me) a US citizen as he was born in Canada to (at the time) two US parents (entrapped and cannot renounce because of a developmental disability). I don’t do Facebook so can’t comment. I did forward my family’s story to Mr. Todd. I understand that he wants (at least right now) BC persons this affects, but that qualification may change.
@Calgary, “who is still considered (by the US, not by me)”
That put a smile on my face.
Your son is not a German Citizen regardless if he has German Ancestry and the German Government considers him to be a German.
Your son is not a Polish Citizen regardless if he has Polish Ancestry and the Polish Government considers him to be a Polish.
Your son is not a US Citizen regardless if he has US Ancestry and the US Government considers him to be US.
There is no dispute that a person MUST have A nationality. Your son does have A Nationality and he is Canadian. You have done nothing to make an election for him with respect to the USA and he has done nothing to make an election with the USA.
Your son is no more a US Citizen, than he is German, Polish or anything else.
The smile on my face is that you outright deny and repudiate anything along the lines of “Dual Citizenship.”
Your son can ONLY and I mean ONLY be considered a US Citizen if he crosses that border and it is forced upon him.
Thats why we need to keep working and STOP using the term DUAL CITIZEN.
A dual citizen is a person who claims and wants it. All else? Its clinging nationality.
Someone today called me dual to which I first asked why did you say that? I asked was it the colour of my skin? The person then said it was the way I talked. I then proceeded to correct them that I had relinquished and I was as much an equal citizen as to his status.
To put it another way, you can no more be a dual citizen than be dual religion!!
My mother is Catholic and my father is Protestant. Does that make me a dual Catholic/Protestant!! Of course not, its impossible.
Its equally impossible to be a Dual Canadian and German whilst in Canada!!
@Calgary411, I stand corrected. Under Canadian Law your son IS a dual citizen.
He is a Canadian Citizen.
He is a Commonwealth Citizen. Yes, that is part of Canadian and British law and yes even if you do not like it, you can not shake that one. 😉
Just like a British Citizen is tri-national that being British, a European Union Citizen and a Commonwealth Citizen.
You make so much sense, George. Yours is the language I speak: common sense. Its lack seems to be a genetic defect in many of our government representatives, wherever they reside and whoever they govern.
Much of what you have told me so clearly will be my argument when and if the time comes.
Thanks, George. That more honourary Commonwealth citizenship, no strings attached, my family will accept for my son born in Canada. Will our Conservative government agree? They refer to the “us” like my son as “US citizens who happen to reside in Canada”.
All this debate as to who is a citizen of where…who cares? What the hell does this have to do with taxes anyway?
…here is the way I see why I’m here talking about who is a citizen of the USA.
Nobody needs to care who is a citizen of anywhere UNLESS if one happens to be deemed a US Citizen living outside the USA (or for that matter an Eritrean living outside of Eritrea).
US citizenship-based taxation plus the intergovernmental agreements signed by Canada and other countries make Canada and those other countries arms of the US IRS to ensure that we supposed US citizens are filing our US tax returns, whether or not there would be any US taxes actually owing. If it were residence-based citizenship taxation law the US had, correct — it would have nothing to do with who (you, me, children who are “Accidental Americans”) is a citizen of where.
In my mind, right now it is about collecting data, less to do with taxes but for not having filed a myriad of complex US forms and the draconian penalties that can be assessed for not having done so or being deemed a ‘covered expatriate’ and subject to the US Exit Tax, including just for the fact of not filing (no matter what the net worth is) that last complex form 8854 that determines Net Worth for the Exit Tax.
*Supposed* US citizenship is the very thing that has you in your plight as an “Accidental American” born in the US to Canadian parents and my son in his entrapment into supposed US citizenship, born in Canada to two US citizen parents.
Citizenship is the determinant here if it is a US citizenship so has everything to do with taxes, penalties, entrapment, serfdom, loss of rights of privacy and discrimination by national origin — that being national origin of the US. Thus, our supposed US citizenship.
You’re right, though, no one cares who is a citizen of where — UNLESS where that citizenship is from is the USA.
Our US citizenships are the reason for the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty and the challenge to what Canada has signed into law. Our main fight in the Challenge will be that our rights in Canada are not lost because of our supposed US citizenship.
As John Richardson advises, do nothing until you determine whether or not you are ACTUALLY a US citizen. When that is determined, then you can research to make a decision on what you are going to do about that US citizenship — keep it and be forever indentured to the USA and the expense of US tax returns and FBARS year after year after year; renounce or claim relinquishment of US citizenship to cut the ties of tax enslavement; hide in fear of what might happen next, always having to look over your shoulder; or being part of ADCS-ADSC litigation for the same rights for *US Persons* in Canada as for any other Canadian, no matter their national origin or the national origin of their parents.
WhiteKat, regarding… All this debate as to who is a citizen of where…who cares?
Dittos on what Calgary wrote…..
My two cents….Canadian pennies. 😉
Right now, there are individuals who are effectively/defacto being cut out from financial institutions. Both in Canada and elsewhere. By example, its not right nor normal that a person who is tainted by the US is now forbidden to open a savings account with National Savings and Investments NS&I.
People are being strangled out because they are being asked Are you a US Citizen or what is your place of birth.
The Government of Canada has NOT laid to rest that a Canadian Citizen in Canada can solely be Canadian whilst in Canada. This has not been stated in Canadian Law nor has it been stated in any US/Canada treaties. In regards to the treaties the USA defines US Citizen but Canada does not thoroughly define Canadian.
If Canada was to “resign” the 1930 Convention on Nationality, that might likely cut out a large section of FATCA as redundant.
Anyone in Canada should note have to disclose place of birth in order to open a financial account, that is clearly discrimination.
Any Canadian Citizen resident in Canada when asked “What is your Citizenship?” should under Canadian Law be able to solidly answer with a single citizenship that being Canada, regardless as to what ANY country says because laws of all other countries are FOREIGN LAW.
Unfortunately Citizenship is at the very heart of the matter. We can not change what the laws are of a foreign country like the USA, but we/you can change the laws or clarify the laws on citizenship of our own country.
IMO, a Judge will rule in favor of ADSC by coming to the conclusion that all Canadian Citizens are equal under Canadian Law and while parliament can pass the data of ALL Canadians to the USA, they can not pass the data on some Canadians. Actual citizenship will be a key factor in the lawsuit.
The only area which is grey is that US Citizens in Canada who are solely permanent residents may be thrown under the bus when all is said and done.