As Bill C-31 winds its way through the Canadian parliamentary system, those who defend the FATCA IGA legislation buried within 300+ pages of the omnibus bill it is hidden in, respond to the cry of the victims, by repeating the message, ‘Well, you might win a Charter Challenge, but if you do, it will hurt ALL Canadians’.
Should the estimated one million Canadians, deemed ‘US persons’ by a foreign nation, and their family members feel guilty about actively opposing this deal with the devil? Should they all just shut-up, and take one for the team? After all there are 30-something million other Canadians who are not affected by a FATCA IGA with the USA, who could care less, or so it seems.
Are Canadian citizens, deemed ‘US persons’, asking their fellow Canadians too much by insisting they risk their economic well being in exchange for the rights and freedoms, and economic well being of the ‘US persons’ in their midst?
Do Canadians want to live in a country where the majority is protected – until it’s not – at the expense of others who find themselves in the cross-hairs of a foreign nation through no fault of their own?
Has Canada become a mockery of a country with a reputation for high standards of human rights and freedoms?
Has Canada never been what many thought it was, with those deemed ‘US persons’, the first to be disillusioned by the reality that none of us are free, and none of us are protected, as is evidenced when a bigger power comes knocking and demanding tribute from those it illegitimately considers its own?
NorthernStar, in an email she shared with me, writes the following comment with regard to an article written by Don Cayo published at the Vancouver Sun:
I refused the offer. and I got off lightly….
In the early 90’s after 24 years in Canada as a permanent resident my husband and I chose to become Canadian citizens… We realized that we were never going back to the USA, to work or retire. Our children were born here and we have long established good paying jobs. We loved Canada and it was a good fit as we were Canadian in our hearts and beliefs.Somehow, unlike most Americans who expatriate, I found out that US taxes were to be filed while living outside of the USA. I was an A student in US History and Economic Geography in high school and never was taught Citizen based Taxation (the exceptional America uses ) and Resident Based Taxation (the rest of the world uses).
I guess I found out through reading, which I do a lot of. My mother once told me I would go to my room and read. I filed US taxes for my husband and I, all by myself. The most complicated part was currency conversion. We never had to pay as we were far below the US level where one must pay US taxes. One year in the 80s the IRS sent us back a $2,000. US income tax refund.. I promptly called the IRS and sent the cheque back as we never worked in the USA since 1969. The last US tax filing I did was for the year 1993 when we became citizens.
I am thankful to be Canadian and to have the good health care insurance as my husband and one of our children were diagnosed two months apart in 1998 with cancer. They had the best of care in Toronto’s Sunnybrook Hospital. Unfortunately it was terminal for both of them. I compared there treatment with that given in the USA and they had the same superior treatments with no medical costs for us. My husband left me his pension intact. I am now retired and living on it..In January 2009 I was visiting one of my children in Toronto when we discovered while reading the Toronto Paper (probably the Sun) that the Democrats Abroad was holding an inauguration party for President Obama, who I admired greatly. I decided to go to the party as it was an open invite. I met mostly Americans working in Toronto but planning to go back.. I signed the email list just to know what might be interesting happening with the organization. In 2012 there was an DA email out about FATCA.. Long story short there was a meeting in Yorkdale that spring about FATCA hosted by DA. The room was filled to standing room capacity. FATCA was a shock to many but the Dems abroad were kind enough to have the Tax Compliance Industry there waiting to take our money with over a $1000 plus for each year US taxes not filed if we chose to use them.. We were advised we could face heavy penalties from the IRS if we did not file I was shocked that I had been wrong and that I had still to file US Taxes.
A few months later I found online The Isaac Brock Society and Maple Leaf Sandbox They saved my sanity. I found out that in my circumstances I needed to get a Citizen Loss of Nationality (CLN). There are many of us, and many who do not post on these sites but are all together on the bus to fight this immoral agreement, FATCA. We are the modern day Rosa Parks. I am free now… I have that official paper, backdated to the day I became citizen. Others must pay a lot of money to do this , or mothers can not renounce for their adult mentally challenged child, born in Canada, because the US citizenship is so “precious”. See Calgary411 on Brock for that scenario. There is no easy way out for most. For many it means giving up all their life savings, earned in Canada only. It is not at all like giving up Canadian citizenship. Canada is a very much kinder country.
I am prepared to help fund and campaign for the Charter Challenge to FATCA, even though I am safe. I will do this for ALL Canadians, not just American Canadians. I treasure my privacy and the Charter of Rights and Freedom . The Harper government has given in to the US bully. Other Prime Ministers stood up to the American bully and said NO. If Canada had said NO, other countries would follow suit. There are over a million American persons in Canada.
Now will Russia, China, India, Saudia Arabia, Japan require the banking info of dual Canadians from their country? Will Harper give in and give them this banking information.
Canada has caved in to the Banking and Investment/Compliance Industrial Complex.
It has gone against what Matthew 16:26 said
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
another saying I have on my desk is: Tyranny wins when good men do not say anything.
What is happening now… is like what happened in Europe in the 30s. Do you want American Canadians to be second class citizens for the benefit of money and the loss of our Canadian sovereignty?
NorthernStar received this response to her comment:
Thanks for this. It is very interesting. And I’m very pleased it is working out well for you.
If you go ahead with your Charter challenge, you may … very possibly win. You will no doubt consider this a great moral victory, and I cannot disagree. But I believe it will contribute to an economic disaster. And that was the point ….. You have every right to believe the victory is worth the cost, however, but you ought not go into this without understanding what the consequences will be. And not just for those who have held American citizenship, but for all Canadians.
Personally, I think you are wrong to assume other countries would follow suit. I think Canada would be hung out to dry. I don’t like this — I think it’s wrong — but our indignation about it and two or three bucks would get us a cup of coffee.
@ AnonAnon
I think you are right. The fact is, even if “the little guys” were not the original intended targets they could have fixed the FATCA problem easily, right after the launch of the pogrom, and the key is they did NOT fix it. They could still fix it but instead they only seem to double-down on their hubris and economic hegemony. Someone, somewhere in the shadows of the US government, decided US emigrants and US immigrants would be easy pickins and by using the techniques of Edward Bernays they could quickly and indelibly brand their FATCA victims as cheats and whiners so that nobody would care what happened to them … some would even cheer on and profit from the misfortune of the branded ones. Creating a thriving compliance condor industry falls right in line with advancing the FIRE (Finance, Insurance, Real Estate) economy over the production economy. I think FIRE is an appropriate acronym because this might eventually take us all down in flames — certainly the F’n part anyway. It almost happened in 2008 but of course the bankster bail-out was there to ensure the game would go on … for awhile longer at least.
Here’s an interesting but outdated graph re: the growth of the FIRE industry (I’d guess the gap is even wider now):
http://pragcap.com/the-growth-of-the-fire-economy
Good comments, AnonAnon and Em. Correct (or I think so), Em, they could have stopped and fixed what was wrong with the model. The powers that be in Congress chose to capitalize on it instead (in my view).
And now, I have been introduced (again by knowledgeable Em) to a concept I wasn’t aware of, the F.I.R.E. (Finance, Insurance & Real Estate) industry / economy. I can never go back to my simplistic ways of thinking.
@ calgary411
About my only endearing or some might say annoying characteristic is curiosity. So, once I entered into the internets (less than 10 years ago), I found myself eagerly swallowing the “red pill”. Its effects are not reversible. So for me too, there’s no turning back. Not even when I come across disturbing revelations about my own country. This one is about Canada’s interpretation of defamation:
http://www.corbettreport.com/interview-887-connie-fournier-recounts-her-defamation-lawsuit-nightmare/
I thought while I listened to that episode there’s undoubtably defamity here and there in my opinionating. This is probably true of most of us but we can’t walk around with duct tape over our mouths. We have to question why anyone would want this and push for the offending legislation to be changed. Same with our cause. US CBT is bad. FATCA is bad. The IGA is complicit in the bad. We have to keep thinking, writing, speaking and briefing — no matter what.
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Thanks (I think) for this one too, Em. Freedom of speech gone and guilty until proven innocent.
@ calgary411
Not me but yes … sadly yes. Maybe it came from here:
http://www.theinformationdaily.com/2013/08/15/guilty-until-proven-innocent-freedom-of-speech-in-the-digital-age
Take one for the team, huh? Don Cayo. So what would you say about this sex offender being allowed to stay in Canada and apply for Permanent Residency while law-abiding citizen are being shafted and thrown under the bus to the United States IRS? https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dailybrew/canada-grant-asylum-u-woman-facing-30-sentence-202822436.html Absolutely disgusting. Implementing FATCA is a crime but the Canadian government seems to think that we’re criminals but they’ll let this pedophile in. What the hell has Canada come to?
This court decision should have EVERY SINGLE one of us Brockers up in arms.
@The_Animal
According to the article, the basis for the decision is:
I think the decision should be understood to mean that Canada interprets aspects of the U.S. criminal justice system as mandating “cruel and unusual punishment”. What about the draconian FBAR penalties and the like? It apparently also includes some discussion of extradition.
So, all in all, this is a very welcome decision.
Round 2 will be when the woman is charged with the willful non-filing of FBAR and the like. It could be a very interesting test case on a number of issues.
Also, would suggest that you make a distinction between the government and the courts. The Canadian government is unhappy with the decision. So, there is no inconsistency in the position of the government. The courts have supported the woman. The interesting thing will be how the courts respond to the persecution of individual Canadians under FATCA. We don’t know yet.
Finally, if you think that this woman has somehow “gotten away with something” or is “a bad person”, let me remind you that:
By becoming a U.S. citizen abroad, the woman will have punishment inflicted on her the rest of her life! So, she’s not getting away with anything.
This is a woman that will be renouncing U.S. citizenship at the earliest convenience.
@Em & calgary
Geez, what a crock.
I was not aware that Canada has a new anti-spam law coming into effect (which is different but also stifling). For instance, no more Tweet Blasts. Am passing this on in case others should consider changing how they “do” social media.
“Will CASL apply to you and your organization?
Coming into effect on July 1, 2014, CASL has the potential to
impact any individual or organization in Canada who sends e-mails,
texts, social media messages or any other form of electronic
communication to a recipient, whether they are businesses,
consumers or individuals.
Failure to comply may lead to significant consequences
and penalties:
•Monetary penalties of up to $10 million per violation for
corporations and up to $1 million per violation for individuals……
Makes FBAR look like a piece of cake, eh?
http://www.millerthomson.com/assets/files/general/CASL_WhatYouNeedToKnow_En_0414.pdf …
@ Tricia/nobledreamer,
I just took a really quick look at the new Anti-SpamAct, and it looks like it is aimed at communications which have a commercial aspect to them. If I’m reading it correctly, I don’t think we’ll have a problem.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/E-1.6/index.html
From the govt’s “Fast Facts” page:
http://fightspam.gc.ca/eic/site/030.nsf/eng/h_00039.html
FAQ’s
http://fightspam.gc.ca/eic/site/030.nsf/eng/h_00050.html
But, further to Em’s comment, this is not what the legislation regarding this shut-down? http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/search.php?search_id=active_topics
@ Calgary,
I’m confused about it. The Free Dominion case is about defamation on websites. I don’t think there was anything about spam in it. The Anti-Spam law seems to be about sending e-mails with commercial content but I didn’t see anything in it (at a very quick look) about defamation. The Anti-Spam law isn’t in effect yet, so it couldn’t have played a role in the Free Dominion decision, and because the Free Dominion case didn’t deal with spam, I don’t think this law would have been passed as a result of or a reaction to it.
@ pacifica777
The defamation case and the spam legislation are not related, as far as I can see. The blue letter sites that sneak into Brock (mostly at night) are just trying to trick someone into giving their site a hit, right? Is that trolling or spamming or what do you call it? It must be annoying to say the least for you and others in admin to have to seek ’em and delete ’em but we all appreciate your diligence.
@ Em,
Yes, I think the point of those spams are to trick people into clicking on their site, and also I was told that the more sites have a link to your site, the higher up your site turns up in google searches. I don’t know much about this stuff, though, so I’m just repeating what I heard.
That defamation case, Free Dominion, was really interesting. Thank you for pointing it out with the link yesterday. I listened to the interview with Connie Fournier and then looked up some more about it. I’ll definitely be keeping an eye out for news about the appeal.
@all
sorry for the confusion.
the anti spam thing was directed at those of us who do twitter blasts and other sorts of email/electronic stuff to “further our cause.”
Has nothing to do with Em’s comment it just matched in a way regarding watching what you put online.
@ Tricia
Indeed we should watch what we put online but I won’t give up on Free Speech until I hear the click of the coffin’s latch. I know we like to believe Canada is a “free dominion” but actually in the realm of free speech things are a bit better in the USA … I think. They have societal taboos about closely examining some topics and expressing opinions on such but not outright legislation against doing so like with Canada’s hate speech laws. In theory in the USA the First Amendment is still there. In practice these days though, perhaps not so much.
@Em:
If you are “hearing the latch click on the coffin” you do NOT belong in the coffin, hon!
@ FuriousAC
Thanks but I meant Free Speech’s coffin not mine. I certainly won’t hear my own coffin’s latch click. 🙂
It is a false dichotomy and diversionary tactic for the FATCA apologists/collaborators to make the charge that to oppose the FATCA IGA in Canada is to choose to impose a greater harm on Canada and all Canadians.
There is no reason why we should be FORCED by the US to make any such ‘choice’. If the US said: turn over 1 million of your citizens and residents or else – would we say that we had an obligation to sacrifice ANY Canadian citizens and residents? What size of sacrifice would be acceptable?
What happens the next time the US comes demanding hostages via economic or other sanctions?
Since when has it become the official policy of Canada’s federal government to ask those of any other categories of parentage or birthplace or nation origin/ancestry to give themselves up or be given up to a foreign country for the ‘greater good’ of ‘all’?
Has Canada signed any other intergovernmental agreements of any kind, that rely on the enforced identification and enforced sacrifice of the wellbeing and data of any other groups of Canadian citizens and legal residents to a foreign power?
Is this a precedent that Canadian MPs are willing to defend?
US Person Abroad,
Well, let me tell you that the courts would more than happily toss us “white-collar criminals” under the bus because evidently they consider pedophilia less of a crime than tax avoidance. As far as I’m concerned, the courts are just as complicit as the government in lax sentencing. I don’t condone one bit what this woman did whether it be consensual or what. And the fact that the courts are allowing this woman to come across the border regardless of her crimes whereas we, as both landed immigrants, citizens and those connected to those persons, have to suffer the stigma of being branded criminals in the same vein. So I’m sorry, but I consider this a spit in the face of all of us who are law-abiding as Canadian citizens and landed immigrants whose only mistake was to not get rid of the United States citizenship sooner before it became toxic.