I just read a report from the Credit Union Central of Canada, which seems to indicate that most Canadian credit unions will be at least partially exempt from FATCA.
Even credit unions over the 175 million asset limit (which are MOST credit unions) appear to be partially exempt. IF less than 2% of their customers are non-resident ‘US persons’ they only have to report those non-residents of Canada under the FATCA IGA presuming I am interpreting this report correctly.
Am I dreaming? I sure hope not, and if not, we should have a HUGE BANK PROTEST DAY by moving all our funds out of the big banks and into a credit union!
Select the article titled: “FATCA IGA & Guidance provide much needed details, Mar 11, 2014” from:
http://www.cucentral.ca/SitePages/Publications/Connections.aspx
@Premierjuillet, I thought this was too good to be true. But maybe your experience was a fluke. Let’s hope. I am surprised she asked you where you were born though!
Premier Julliet
Go somewhere else then
Our credit unions here aren’t doing that so move to BC
BTW Canadian Credit Unions are NOT allowed to invest in any place other than where they are domiciled so we hope they will not go national. They won’t believe me. So they can tell the USSA to eat shit
List of Credit Unions
Today, there are over 100 independent credit unions in Ontario. Each one proudly serves its members and the community – demonstrating each day why credit unions are a better way to bank.
Meet and discover Ontario’s credit unions through the easy listing below.
Adjala Credit Union
Airline Financial Credit Union
Alterna Savings
APPLE Credit Union
Auto Workers Community Credit Union
Bay Credit Union
Bayshore Credit Union
Buduchnist Credit Union
City Savings and Credit Union
CN (London) Credit Union
Community First Credit Union
Comtech Credit Union
Copperfin Credit Union
Creative Arts Savings & Credit Union Ltd.
DUCA Financial Services Credit Union Ltd.
Dunnville and District Credit Union
Durham Educational Employees’ Credit Union
Education Credit Union
Equity Credit Union
Espanola and District Credit Union
Estonian Credit Union
Federal Employees (Kingston) Credit Union
Finnish Credit Union
Fire Services Credit Union
FirstOntario Credit Union
Fort Erie Community Credit Union
Fort York Community Credit Union
Frontline Credit Union
Ganaraska Credit Union
Hald-Nor Community Credit Union
Health Care Credit Union
Healthcare and Municipal Employees Credit Union
Heritage Savings & Credit Union Inc.
IC Savings
Kawartha Credit Union
Kellogg Employees Credit Union
Kingston Community Credit Union
Korean (Toronto) Credit Union
Korean Catholic Church Credit Union
Krek Slovenian Credit Union
L.I.U.N.A. Local 183 Credit Union
Lambton Financial Credit Union
Libro Credit Union
London Fire Fighters’ Credit Union
Luminus Financial Services and Credit Union
Mainstreet Credit Union
Member Savings Credit Union
MemberOne Credit Union
Mennonite Savings and Credit Union
Meridian
Momentum Credit Union
Motor City Community Credit Union
Northern Credit Union
Northern Lights Credit Union
Ontario Educational Credit Union
Ontario Provincial Police Association Credit Union
Oshawa Community Credit Union
Ottawa Police Credit Union
Pace Savings & Credit Union
Parama Lithuanian Credit Union
PenFinancial Credit Union
Peterborough Community Credit Union
Prosperity One Credit Union
Provincial Alliance Credit Union
QuintEssential Credit Union
Resurrection Credit Union
Saugeen Community Credit Union
Slovenia Parishes Credit Union
Smiths Falls Community Credit Union
Southwest Regional Credit Union
St. Stanislaus-St. Casimir’s Polish Parishes Credit Union
State Farm (Toronto) Credit Union
Sudbury Credit Union
Taiwanese-Canadian (Toronto) Credit Union
Talka Credit Union Limited
Teachers Credit Union
Thamesville Community Credit Union
The Energy Credit Union
The Fire Department Employees Credit Union
The Police Credit Union
The Toronto Municipal Employees’ Credit Union
Thorold Community Credit Union
Ukrainian Credit Union
United Employees Credit Union
Utilities Employees’ (Windsor) Credit Union
Victory Community Credit Union
Windsor Family Credit Union
Your Credit Union
Your Neighbourhood Credit Union
Open the acct with a very small amount and then add larger amounts. You can solve this problem. If you can’t then for Christs sake buy bullion and bury it somewhere
Try this one, they need the money:
https://www.ukrainiancu.com/UCU/ToolsAndCalculators/FindBranchATM/ but personally I’d go with this one:
Estonian Credit Union Head Office
305 – 958 Broadview Avenue
Toronto, ON M4K 2R6
Office phone: 416.465.4659
They REALLY need to money 😉
Why are there not many credit unions in Alberta?
Some of us joked offline about creating a ‘US Persons Credit Union’ where no FATCA would be allowed.
With regards to this list of FIs (mostly credit unions) with high-interest savings accounts, I spent the afternoon looking at all the websites:
http://www.highinterestsavings.ca/chart/
10 out of 14 restrict customers to Canadian residents. ING and Oaken do not. MAXA and Outlook maybe do not have the restrictions but I couldn’t be certain.
I posted before that although Implicity Financial has the restriction, their parent company does not, so they might report as one unit with the parent company regardless. So, it would seem that parentage is important. Only one, Achieva, has a parent with a Canadian residency requirement (Manitoba residency, actually). However, 3 with residency requirements have no parent company: Canadian Tire Financial, ICICI Bank and People’s Trust. I couldn’t determine if AcceleRate Financial’s parent, Crosstown Civic Credit Union has a residency requirement. Bridgewater Bank’s parent is AMA, which isn’t an FI, so presumably they’d be eligible to be deemed compliant.
@schubert1975
The only place I’ve found the “2%” solution is in the UK Guidance document. I expect it to be in the CRA Guidance document when it is released.
The document that WhiteKat refers to is not just some random CUCC publication, it’s the draft copy of the CRA Guidance document that we’ve been waiting for. It will not be made public until May or so.
The 2% threshold just seems like another iffy thing to me. I’m going after FIs with 0%, IE, accounts available to Canadian residents only, period.
Yes, WhiteKat, the “Isaac Brock Credit Union” 🙂
Whitekat and Bubblebustin…I love the way you’re thinking. It makes me think of my Russian cousin’s history lesson about billionaire Mikhael Khodorkovsky whom you may remember became a billionaire through Yukos Oil and then became Vladimir Putin’s private prisoner until very recently (deemed a political threat, obviously more than Obama!). Anyway, when MK was unable to find what he needed in the banking industry in the shambles of the Soviet Union, he started inquiring what it takes to get a banking charter in the new Russia, then went ahead and did it…..much to his benefit. Does anyone know the rules in Canada? I’ve already been suggesting such a thing to Canadian Tire Bank, as they’d be well situated (and named) to do such a thing (as an Isaac Brock Bank), but I was likely talking to the wrong people there.
@calgary,
Alberta has this unique FI: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alberta_Treasury_Branches
“Alberta Treasury Branches, doing business as ATB Financial,[2] is a financial institution and crown corporation owned by the Province of Alberta. ATB operates in Alberta only, providing financial services to 680,000 Albertans and Alberta-based businesses. ATB has 167 branches and 130 agencies, serving a total of 242 communities in Alberta.” ,,,,,”Headquartered in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, with total assets of C$32.0 billion, ATB is the largest Alberta-based financial institution.
ATB is not a chartered bank, and unlike all banks operating in Canada, ATB is regulated entirely by the Government of Alberta, under the authority of the Alberta Treasury Branches Act, Chapter A-37.9, 1997, and Treasury Branches Regulation 187/97…..”
Which is worth looking into because it is a crown corporation owned by the Alberta government. It is not a bank. It serves only residents of Alberta. If I remember correctly, FIs owned by a national government or a subdivision of one (ex. municipal, provincial ) may be exempt – but that needs to be verified.
Also we need to be wary of this:
http://www.fin.gc.ca/n14/14-010-eng.asp
“January 24, 2014 – Ottawa, Ontario – Department of Finance
Finance Minister Jim Flaherty today announced the Government’s intention to enhance the federal credit union framework by providing temporary transitional support to eligible provincial credit unions that have provincial acceptance to move to the federal framework……The federal credit union framework, which came into force in 2012, is designed to promote competition, efficiency, innovation and stability by giving credit unions the option of transferring to federal regulation and operating seamlessly across provincial borders…… ”
https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/14/b-c-freedom-of-information-and-privacy-association-speaks-out-against-fatca-iga/comment-page-1/#comment-1232135
Flaherty and the Ministry of Finance has offered to allow provincially regulated credit unions to transition to federal regulation in order to expand and go national – to operate beyond provincial boundaries, BUT, that would remove the layer of provincial regulatory barrier that might assist in holding FATCA at bay for some credit unions – and might impinge on the definition of ‘local’ re FATCA – which the US can change unilaterally, without notice or Canada’s consent. So, one needs to as a member inquire whether the credit union is considering doing this and oppose it, or help elect members to the board who will oppose expansion at the expense of becoming federally regulated. Which in my opinion moves the CU at a far remove from the ‘local’ control – and makes them more vulnerable to FATCA and any other international treaty sovereignty ceding surprises that the federal government is about to enter into (ex. GATCA)?
If you are not concerned about being out to your credit union, and it hasn’t issued an anti- FATCA statement, you could give them a copy of VanCity’s and ask them why they haven’t, done as VanCity did:
VanCity’s response to the signing of the FATCA IGA:
https://www.vancity.com/AboutVancity/News/AdditionalNews/FATCA/
“FATCA: Vancity’s response to Canada-U.S. intergovernmental agreement on the U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act”
February 18, 2014
See my comment here, and the link https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/14/b-c-freedom-of-information-and-privacy-association-speaks-out-against-fatca-iga/comment-page-1/#comment-1232249
See also an exchange about Alterna, re its subsidiary Alterna Bank which George pointed out might be a problem and potentially a cause of PremiereJuillet’s experience?:
https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/14/b-c-freedom-of-information-and-privacy-association-speaks-out-against-fatca-iga/comment-page-2/#comment-1233531
https://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/03/14/b-c-freedom-of-information-and-privacy-association-speaks-out-against-fatca-iga/comment-page-2/#comment-1233579
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alterna_Savings
There may be important differences to check out between each credit union as per structure, subsidiaries, financial products (sometimes investments are offered via another entity), stance on FATCA, relationship with another business who has exposure to the US market, and whether they are provincially regulated or have gone national and are federally regulated, etc.
Take a deep breath… and contemplate the fundamental absence of capacity and mechanism of extra-jurisdictional enforcement in this issue.
According to Pew Institute, more than 11 MILLION so-called illegal immigrants reside in the US.
This is as if the ENTIRE POPULATION of Ontario entered the US illegally, and now work and live there without any kind of legal residency document (visas, work permits, green cards, etc).
These 11 MILLION so-called illegal immigrants live and work in the US. The rent or own homes. They attend public schools and use hospitals and other public services.
How many of these 11 MILLION undocumented US residents file tax returns or have an SS number – likely close to 0%. They could do so – not even if they wanted to – and ironically many simply want be everyday US citizens.
And yet, the US seems powerless to do anything about this group – the virtual population of Ontario – living and working on US soil “illegally”.
By what mechanism will the US now act against Canadian citizens resident in Canada, with no US assets, employment or presence?
Bridgewater Bank: Mortgages, Savings, Credit Cards (pretty bare bones, not a lot of choices)
History
Established in 1997.
Bridgewater Bank is a Canadian Schedule l chartered bank with over 200 employees and a portfolio of over $4 billion representing over 93,000 accounts across Canada (with the exception of Quebec).
We specialize in competitive residential mortgages and deposit products through a select network of brokers. In 2010 we became a MasterCard issuer and are the exclusive issuer of the Canadian Automobile Association (CAA®) Rewards MasterCard®* for nine CAA clubs across Canada. We also offer a variety of financial products through our website and by phone.
Bridgewater Bank is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Alberta Motor Association (AMA), the largest membership service organization in Alberta. We’re customer-focused, helping you succeed with honest, straightforward service and solutions to meet and exceed your needs.
Isaac Brock Credit Union, how many clients would it need?
Thanks for this, badger.
Would not the correct response to this be: “I believe that question violates Section 15.1 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. If you wish an answer, please make the question in writing on paper that includes your financial institution’s letterhead, and provide me with a copy.”
Hmm, wonder what would happen if you just respond, “I only pay taxes to Canada”, which for 99% of us, would be factually correct.
Off topic but may be worth a thread of its own sometime. NY State apparently has a Residence Based Tax system rather than a Document based tax system … check out the article here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/03/20/how-a-clever-man-is-using-selfies-to-protect-himself-from-the-irs/comment-page-2/#comment-7065609
The article starts as follows:
How a Clever Man Is Using Selfies to Protect Himself From the IRS
Mar. 20, 2014 5:30pm Jason Howerton
6.3K
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Andrew Jarvis, an architect who had to work out of his firm’s New York City and Philadelphia offices, quickly grew tired of the exhausting commute. So he started renting an NYC apartment to lighten the burden.
However, he soon realized that New York, which has some of the most ridiculously high tax rates, could use his part-time residency as an excuse to tax him even more. Jarvis inspected the tax code and learned that the state couldn’t tax his income if he lived there 182 days or less each year.
It appears that he understood the IRS was unlikely to just take his word for it, so he started taking selfies so he would have proof he spends more time in Philly than New York City.
@Wondering – strange eh ? Yet those people will be protected by the US Justice Department using some sort of Civil Rights argument whilst the persons resident outside the US are treated as fair game for oppression of every sort.
@PierreD
Well you never know what will evolve out of FATCA being inflicted upon the world, do you?
@Wondering
The IRS may not have a mechanism for collection, but the tree shaking will produce some fruit nonetheless. There are a great many US persons living abroad who for various reasons need access to the US, which for them entails being in good standing with the IRS.
Perhaps that’s enough for the United States.
Wondering, I worked with ESL kids in one of my teaching positions. You’d be surprised how many of those from south of the US border have SS numbers. In fact, among the many problems the IRS has, people who file using stolen SS numbers or made up SS numbers is one of their bigger issues but only because it’s illegal to do so. They still keep the money that is collected And when you read about Immigration busts of businesses who employ aliens, you see that many of them obtained employment with fraudulent SS numbers.
A couple of weeks ago, I called a small credit union in the B.C. Okanagan to ask if they would be FATCA-compliant and the manager told me yes, they had no choice.
I opened a saving account at a B.C. credit union last week they asked if I was a Canadian resident.
Molly, Can you tell us which small credit union you are referring to? Do you know if they had under 175 mill in assets? If so, then they definitely should not have to worry about FATCA.