Politico’s Rachel Bade reports on the renewed efforts by Carl Levin and John McCain to pressure Senator Rand Paul into ratifying a long-delayed 2009 Swiss-U.S. Protocol that would allow the release of even more names of U.S. account holders at Swiss banks. As Bade reports in this excerpt,
Paul, a libertarian Republican widely believed to be eyeing a 2016 presidential run, says his hold stems from concerns about Fourth Amendment protections against “unreasonable search and seizure.”
“These are people that are alleged, not convicted of doing anything wrong,” Paul said a few weeks ago. “I don’t think you should have everybody’s information from their bank. There should be some process: accusations and proof that you’ve committed a crime.”
Paul’s protest is also linked to his abhorrence of the soon-to-take-effect Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, which will force foreign banks to disclose U.S. account information to the IRS, and domestic banks to reciprocate to other nations’ revenue departments.
A Treasury official recently told Paul’s staff that FATCA “doesn’t work” without the treaties — though there seems to be disagreement on that point, even in the executive branch.
That sent up red flags anew to Paul because the senator has legislation to repeal FATCA and hesitates to support a treaty that enables a law he views as U.S. government overreach.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/rand-paul-tax-swiss-banks-104148.html#ixzz2usQjnrMo
This article could really use some commentary from Brockers – I encourage everyone to get over there. This is Politico, and it’s a great chance to educate some more of those “rich tax cheats sitting on the beach” Kool-Aid drinkers.
and then this sort of nonsense comes to my inbox ….. not even worthy of a reply I dont think ….. how does one cure arrogant stupidity …
nervousinvestor
I dont invest in the US.
RichardOwens
No US income, then no US tax owed.
4:49 p.m., Monday March 3
RichardOwens’s comment is in reply to nervousinvestor:
Despite a horrific series of high profile gun massacres involving psychotics with legally obtained firearms weapons killing dozens of innocent bystanders in schools, universities, movie theaters, shopping malls, and even secure military bases, Americans refuse to enact even the most modest gun control measures.
Why do you think Americans will change their beliefs because of comments on a blog site?
Would anyone like to comment to this comment to me? I am mentally exhausted, and have wasted most of my day. I think I need therapy.
demosthenes2 says to whitekat:
“You were told what to do:
1. Renounce your U.S. citizenship (which you say you want to do).
2. Stay out of the U.S. (which you say you want to do).
Problem solved. Now unless you have something intelligent to contribute, you’ve wasted enough time for one day.”
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/rand-paul-tax-swiss-banks-104148.html#comment-1269093027
@Shadow Raider,
I saw your very clear question about RO’s position on CBT on their facebook page along with their so-called official reply:
“We support Residency-based taxation (RBT) reform! Our C4 is created to educate the public worldwide not only to repeal FATCA, but also to promote RBT.”
However, I also saw their earlier official reply to a similar question from an expat named John Hanson posted a few days ago:
“RBT will be addressed in due time. Repeal FATCA leads to RBT.”
I think it should be made very clear to RO and the RNC that they need to be much more aggressive about abolishing CBT if they hope to win over new or even keep any of the existing expats in their camp.
Many expats are highly suspicious of being used as cannon fodder for fighting a limited Anti-FATCA battle on behalf of Homelanders, with CBT ultimately being left to remain in tact.
If the RNC wants to get expats into its camp, it needs to quit pussy footing around about the abuses of CBT and step up to the plate for RBT now — not in “due time.”
In “due time” is not a heck of a lot better than “sit tight.”
Must … resist … the … urge … to … respond … to … ignoramuses …
It’s a no-win mud fest, WhiteKat. It appears a bunch of commenters are somehow trained to cut good people down. They don’t want to listen or converse or to offer anything remotely thoughtful. Be glad you’re on this side of that border.
@calgary411
I got moderated once, but that’s okay. I wasn’t aiming to please. ;^)
@nervousinvestor
Their hubris is amazing, isn’t it? Those guys are going to have to endure one helluva fall from grace in order to learn a sense of where they’re really are in the world. Especially in the humility department.
@Joe Blow
“Many expats are highly suspicious of being used as cannon fodder for fighting a limited Anti-FATCA battle on behalf of Homelanders, with CBT ultimately being left to remain in tact.”
And I am one such untrusting, and cynical expat. I, for one, will not believe it until I see it happen, and I’m not going to wait with bated breath for CBT to be repealed in ‘due course’. Life is too short to be burned again, and I just want out.
Check this out – Toronto Star commentary:
http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/03/03/enforce_canadian_law_not_fatca.html
@FreezingDarkness
Nice! Someone at thestar.com actually gets it.
There is hope.
James Jatras has successfully talked with someone at the Toronto Star. Good work, James.
@tdott. LOL. Why am I so gullible…as if I have a chance to convert them.
@FreezingDarkness says;
Excellent commentary by James George Jatras, it deserves its own thread.
@calgary411, it does feel like they are purposely after me, but then this has been the story of my life, so I am in a sense used to it, yet it spurs me on for more of the same. How sick is that?.
@mjh49783
Many forward-thinking expats will have already formally severed the umbilical cord before “in due time” comes, at least those who already possess or manage to obtain alternative travel documents.
I wouldn’t put it past the USSA to put some new obstacles in front of the expatriation process.
WhiteKat, it is useless to think we can change those particular minds. Those commenters were out to cut us down with name calling and other insults. In my mind, they are cowards who don’t want to listen or discuss another point of view. I think we must retreat earlier when we see where it is going. I think I saw one reasonable comment from someone whose mind might have changed (Tex?).
@Calgary411, You are right I know it. I just cannot help myself…it comes from too many prior bullying experiences I think.
@FromTheWilderness
I wouldn’t put anything past the USSA these days.
The US will probably do something offensive like if you don’t fill in your their silly FBARs and the Form 85.. (I can’t remember) correctly then you’ll be accused of ‘conspiracy to defraud the United States.’
As ex-pats we cannot run our life with the US Tax Law always being the minimum payable minus the Foreign Exclusion and other Foreign Tax Credits.
If someone goes to the UAE and pays no income tax, the US has to realise when everyone has some much disposable income then you pay the higher ‘cost of living’ tax which isn’t deductible in the eyes of the IRS. You don’t really win.
@Calgary411, @WhiteKat
The conversation there was so ugly that I wasn’t about to invoke the plight that my wife has to go through because of my US personhood, as well as the things that I’m forced to do just to keep her out of the IRS’s grip. Far as I’m concerned, they’re unworthy of even hearing it. I also have no doubt that as far as they’re concerned, that should be paying their ‘fair share’ as well. Gee. Are they going to give her a passport as a ‘quid pro quo’ for their selfish greed? Of course not, and she doesn’t even want it, but they’ll definitely demand money.
And all of that banter over how their tax system is so unfair……waaaah! Homelander problems. Who gives a fuck? Do half of the homelanders there even pay taxes?
They could get rid of a lot of shit in the tax code, simply by picking a tax rate for everyone resident there across the board. Hell, if everyone paid 8%, then wouldn’t that be fair?
The Democrat poverty pimps will whine about the plight of the poor, as though they really give a squat. Meanwhile, the Republican tightwads will whine about how 8% is still too much, but they’ll really just whine about their own plight.
They don’t want a fair system. They want their own little tax breaks and dodges, and to impose on others what they think is fair. Especially so to us convenient scapegoats that have no effective representation. In effect, it is tyranny of the majority.
@FromTheWilderness
If the USSA wants to criminalize expatriation, then a criminal I will be. Republikflucht used to be a crime in East Germany when it was under the Deutsche Demokratische Republik (DDR) regime. The Sozialistische Einheitspartei Deutschlands (SED) had plenty to say about expatriates back in 1955.
—- Lifted from Wikipedia’s ‘Republikflucht’ entry….
“Both from the moral standpoint as well as in terms of the interests of the whole German nation, leaving the GDR is an act of political and moral backwardness and depravity.
Those who let themselves be recruited objectively serve West German Reaction and militarism, whether they know it or not. Is it not despicable when for the sake of a few alluring job offers or other false promises about a “guaranteed future” one leaves a country in which the seed for a new and more beautiful life is sprouting, and is already showing the first fruits, for the place that favors a new war and destruction?
Is it not an act of political depravity when citizens, whether young people, workers, or members of the intelligentsia, leave and betray what our people have created through common labor in our republic to offer themselves to the American or British secret services or work for the West German factory owners, Junkers, or militarists? Does not leaving the land of progress for the morass of an historically outdated social order demonstrate political backwardness and blindness? …
[W]orkers throughout Germany will demand punishment for those who today leave the German Democratic Republic, the strong bastion of the fight for peace, to serve the deadly enemy of the German people, the imperialists and militarists.”
We aren’t the only Americans (ex) enraged. Anyone read http://www.infowars.com ? They predicted this years ago and here we are
@ChearsBigEars
I read it from time to time.
@MJ49783, @ChearsBigEars
It is great to commiserate here, and you both have great comments, but you are speaking to the choir. Why not try to enlighten some homelanders? Yes, one could argue that it is a waste of time, but we waste time here agreeing with each other. Why not waste some time, kicking homelander ass?
@WhiteKat
To be honest, my biggest problem at this point is my referring these people as ‘homelanders’, when I ought to be referring to them as foreigners. Meanwhile, I can’t be wasting my life all day, every day, trying to convince the hopelessly brainwashed when all I have anymore is ‘Fuck America!’
Convince them? I no longer care what they think. Meanwhile, while it is fun to troll these so-called American sheeple from time to time, I now see the US as a real life threat to both my wife and I, now that Harper chose to capitulate on FATCA.
As for America, she is irredeemable in my view. Look at those asswipes girding up for a war in Ukraine. Another bullshit war? Really? Did they really learn nothing from Iraq? Are the Democrats really lost as to the meaning of the word ‘hypocrisy’? Are they all pissed off still because they didn’t get what they want when they wanted to get into Syria? Fuck them. I hope they lose.
@Shadow Raider:
Thank you for your CBT and FBAR analyses. I agree that you are being “very conservative” regarding the percentage of immigrants not filing FBARs. Just as US emigrants maintain bank relationships with their home country, many if not most immigrants to the US would do the same:
“Here are some statistics:
1. According to the IRS, 1.1 million US citizens abroad file or are listed as spouses or dependents in US tax returns. According to the Department of State, there are 7.6 million US citizens living abroad. Both numbers already exclude residents of US territories, US military and government employees. So the compliance rate with CBT is 15%.
2. The following groups are likely to have bank accounts outside the US (with more than $10,000):
a. Of the 10.5 million people who got green cards in the last 10 years, I estimate, very conservatively, that 10% (1 million) keep bank accounts in their countries of origin, either because they are still living there or because they are named on their parents’ accounts; I’m not even counting the 30 million immigrants who came more than 10 years ago;
b. Of the 7.6 million Americans abroad, I estimate, again very conservatively, that half have bank accounts where they live (to exclude children and those temporarily abroad), so 3.8 million;
c. Of the “wealthy 1%” of US residents born in the US (2.8 million), I estimate 10% have foreign bank accounts (0.3 million); I estimate that no other US persons have bank accounts outside the US.
Total: At least 5 million people should be filing FBARs. About 0.8 million were actually filed recently, so a compliance rate of 16%.”
Also, thank you for your fine lobbying efforts to repeal CBT and use RBT.