Why More Americans Are Renouncing U.S. Citizenship
They all generally agree on the facts of the situation. Even so, there is very little pressure to change it. As one Senate staffer pointed out, nobody in Congress represents overseas Americans. And government officials think this law is succeeding at catching the tax cheats.
That may be worth the side effect of losing a few thousand American citizens every year.
Via Ari Shapiro, International Correspondent, London
Carl Levin is the Mr. Potter and wants the whole world to turn into “Potterville” instead of Bedford Falls.
Thank you very much for doing this.
“our need to renounce from the U.S. and from the IRS without suffering financial harm.”
Not if Carl Levin and Chuck Schumer have their way. Expats are to be punished as heretics. How dare they live and work outside the Homeland? They must be made to pay their “fair share” for all the Homeland public goods and services they never use.
Ok, I posted something, and decided not to make it too expansive, too hyperbolic or inflammatory, (I am cognizant of the progressive audience) and left out links to avoid moderation. I tried to just say he got this part of the story right, and then focus on another unintended consequence…. the global GATCA
Here is what I wrote over lunch…
Was this you? Very well said…
Many thanks for getting NPR to cover this.
Thanks for talking to your Senators’ reps. Especially with one on the Senate Finance Committee!
I wrote to a bunch of Congressional candidates from my old district asking about their stance on CBT, with links to the ACA proposal on RBT. Not a single one has answered the question! Most have started spamming me with requests for money, though — as if I am about to donate to someone who doesn’t even answer a simple, direct question from a constituent!
Feeling pretty discouraged. Was considering voting this year (including primaries), but with this kind of response, I don’t feel I can justify doing so. I will not vote for someone who is not committed to abolishing CBT.
@ Just Me
I have already read and up arrowed your comment. Love how you worked in the GATCA. Is GATCA the father or son of FATCA … or is it the ghost which has been lurking in the wings for years? It’s a monster that’s for certain. And yes, that’s me.
IRSCF, your getting simple points across is good old common sense talking. However, you did leap tall buildings in a single bound to get to the staffer who remembers a previous conversation on CBT vs RBT (Shadow Raider?).
Thanks for your persistence and strategies in making sure the Richardson/Yates/Kish and Richardson (PFIC) Senate Finance Committee submissions get to US tax people. Nothing you have done for us will ever be considered a waste of time.
Visa versa. FATCA is the proud father of the Rosemary’s baby, GATCA
“I don’t feel I can justify doing so. I will not vote for someone who is not committed to abolishing CBT.”
This may sound strong but to me people who vote are ahem…..idiots. They simply have no clue about how the one party system works nor will they listen to the truth. I wouldn’t vote for any of these scumbags in any case. If someone can explain how Gustav Trudeau gets to be PM because of his name and lack of experience then maybe I’d consider it. None of them are going to do anything but pay lip service and hope they can salvage some votes from the huge minority of us that has now been stripped of our rights by the Nazis
I’m sorry, but voting is insane as are those who still believe in the USA or Canada. Best we can hope for is a Thailand or Ukraine type revolt but the government has seen to it that the drug companies have everyone so drugged up they think they have 13 toes
Well, it was called the “Hire” act so HIRE some consulate officers and speed up those CLN’S! At least let us get some benefit out of the “Hire Act”
@ Just Me
So the “G” in GATCA (very large demon spawned son of father FATCA) can stand for “ghoul” or “global”. Gotcha!
I deemed you Atticus In Action after your marathon commenting at NPR today. Good job!
Some kind of catchy Utube video needs to go viral with some of the consequences that we find here and just maybe the rest of America, Canada and the world will be informed of this unfair and unjust law. Elections are coming up and guess who wants a vote? There must be somebody who visits this site that can put together a creative video. It works! Budweiser and the Superbowl is a case in point. I can only suggest because I’m not computer savvy enough to do it.
@Publius … UK branch of Isaac Brock society??? yes please where do I sign up, we need critical mass here.
@IRSCF, Thank you for taking the time to talk to your congressional assistants. It’s not a waste of time, because Congress is the only one who can actually fix the problem.
I haven’t talked to the staff of any senator from Washington state, so I suppose the previous conversation was with ACA, or perhaps Victoria.
Calgary, it’s really easy to set up a meeting with your House and Senate rep and I hope that others decide to do this. My recommendation is to e-mail a short “submission” in advance of the meeting that will be read and later sent on to the DC people. I know that most want nothing to do with the U.S. but if I had renounced, I would have demanded a meeting with the Congressperson as it was this person who forced me to renounce. .
Cantwell is on the important SFC and her staffperson has now received in person submissions from two Brockers, and remembered and quoted from the NPR broadcast.
What WOULD have required some courage, or something, would be if I had taken the staffer up on his (joking) suggestion that I visit the IRS appeals office just down the hall. I actually stood outside the IRS office for about about half a minute and debated this–but decided against having a friendly chat.
I learned a lesson about posting at NPR. Don’t try to post a long comment or reply to a comment. Break your comment into pieces of 400 words or less.
Here are two recent.
Have you seen them? Pass them on.
Or this one…..?
I did a bunch last night, and did not run into the problem you speak of.
I’m glad NPR did this report but, won’t hold my breath thinking home landers will ever get it or care. They don’t. They sit there and talk about the 99 percent but, they only mean if you are inside the U.S. If you’re part of the 99 percent outside of their borders then you are fair game to be demeaned, stolen from and attacked. These morals of relativity turn me off.
@ Just Me
All I can say is I had a 467 word comment which I tried 3 times to post with no luck. When I split it into 2 replies plus 1 new comment it finally posted. It took me awhile to figure that out — thought I had been banned or something. The rules do say a comment had better be interesting if it’s over 400 words so obviously this one was not but I got it in anyway — in pieces. 😉 The pieces are still there. Your comment about what “foreign” income sources are not given credit under US CBT tax law is interesting (keeping that one as a reference).
“In a couple of years it will be 20,000 to 30,000 per annum. Watch this space.”
If the US publishes all the numbers correctly, relinquishments may be already close to those numbers. I went to a consulate for notary service in Hyderabad India. While I am waiting, I say two persons were there to relinquish US citizenship.
@Vencat, if this happens, I’ll bet the renunciation fee could jump to at least $5,000-10,000 if not $25,000-50,000 to put off those of modest means!! Mind you, as even these fees won’t put off the super rich (their main concern), I believe it’s more likely that they’ll become obstructionist by making it almost impossible to book a renunciation appointment… if nothing else, waiting times will bottleneck into several years.
Obviously, without a CLN in hand, many might have to consult tax attorneys to help figure out how to handle the anomalous predicament of having renounced but still without confirmation of a CLN… these former citizens could face the dilemma of having to continue to file tax returns if their deadline is missed if no CLN has been received as proof of expatriation, especially as I also predict that more relinquishments and renunciations will be turned down in Washington, etc.
Many of the U.S. home landers on that site sound like the British must have seemed to the original colonists. “Pay up!” “Tax evader!” “Traitor”
When you point out with facts everything that is wrong with U.S. policy towards expats very, very few will say “OH, wait, that’s very wrong.” or “Wow, the U.S. should apologize and change this policy”
When you have a government that lauds itself on abusing power all over the world then it rubs off on the citizenry. The Treasury comments and lack thereof on that article though this time were very telling. They know clearly this is happening and yet stubbornly refuse to acknowledge there needs to be amendments to the law. This tells me that they fully expect for some to lose citizenship over this and THEY are fine with that. This needs to be noted for history sake and the case of each person and their situation recorded. That’s why it’s good to do media and tell why you feel you must renounce. They archive these things. I don’t want any person who caused this debacle to be able to wiggle out of having this type of history recorded. After all I think that even though for now they probably legitimize all this to themselves in order to be able to sleep at night, they cannot erase a record of what happened to people nor their response to it.
It’s about time! I wrote to NPR twice in the last year asking them to cover the FATCA/CBT issue. Good job, Ari. And you Brockers, especially Just Me and Atticus, have been doing a remarkable job trying to educate people with your comments, for what it’s worth. I admire your patience.
An incredible coincidence, too: the day this story came out, 20 February, I happened to meet an American who was in Brussels for a conference but lives and works in Georgia. When he told me he used to work for NPR, I let him know how disgusted I was with them and with pretty much the entire US press for their in most cases very biased coverage (from the angle: “Would you go so far as to give up your citizenship to escape taxes?”). So I’m glad to see that almost at the very moment I was bashing NPR, someone over there was finally getting it. Thanks, Ari.
@Jane doe beige Thanks for making a direct comment to someone who had connections with NPR! Even though they are pretty much corporate owned these days this particular article got it right. Yes, the U.S. media have mostly got it entirely wrong because they don’t take off the U.S. myopic vision first and see this issue the way other countries see it. CBT sounds outrageous to most foreign people even without FATCA thrown in to the mix. The looks on people’s faces here in Canada when I even bring up CBT are telling, usually along the lines of “how ludicrous!” and “Those insane Americans!” That’s before they even know about FATCA.
It is past time for the U.S. to admit that the reason CBT was implemented was to punish people for leaving the U.S. during a war. That even up till 1962 the way it was done wasn’t nearly as punitive as it is today. Every time a TINY portion of people usually living in the U.S. does something wrong to do with taxes they make CBT more punitive. Get into the modern, global world and go to the international norm of RBT or be considered ridiculous among other nations and as punitive as Eritrea. For all the smug “This is the way WE do it, so WE are right” attitudes are very telling. That is how narcissists and bullies think. Live up to your moniker of “Land of the Free” or stop telling the rest of the world who ARE doing things appropriately how to conduct or implement the rules.