photo from yesterday, day 1 of protest
PROTEST EVENING POSTMORTEM:
I know that this small protest did reach the FIsters attending the conference and put them on notice–because most refused to look us in the eye.
This protest happened because of the dedication of on-site protesters including Atticus, Marie, Northernstar, Peter, Tricia, and WhiteKat, those (including Blaze and James Jatras) who helped in preparation of the letter to the Canadian Bankers Association that was critical to the protest, and because of the others I am not certain that I can mention.
Amazing people, all.
On-site coverage from IRSCompliantForever :
15.54. A last goodbye from all of us to the banksters.
15:03. Banker from small bank who hates FATCA just signed petition.
14:24. AttIcus just explained FATCA to passerby. Response was “Well, the banks need a little (words deleted).”
14:14. Banksters we meet all express sympathy but insist that there is no way to prevent FATCA. So many passerbys wondering about this FATCA word.
13:18. Fellow from one of the major banks visited with us had a friendly chat and accepted the CBA letter. He asked that we not disclose the name of his bank. Banksters are also taking pictures of us.
12.55. Another passerby came up to us expressing concern that her daughter has a Green Card.
Reports and photos of earlier today and yesterday after the jump
12:53. A passerby just came up to us expressing concern that she was born to a US parent and asked whether FATCA applied. Atticus explained and the woman thanked us for being here.
11:23. Unexpectedly another protester arrived with signs. Someone we all know.
11:13. Police have arrived again.
10:51. Nice sunny day. One bankster inside gave us the thumbs up. We had a nice chat with two reps of a major FI who accepted the CBA letter.
***
Day 1 of Protest – Yesterday, 13 November
13:40. Stuck on a narrow curb.
13:07. New development. Head of security informed us that we had to move to the curb in which we must remain 18 inches from the street. I called the police to resolve. Three police officers came and tried to intervene with security, but security refused as walkway is technically on private property. Want to emphasize that police tried their very best to help us. We will try not to tip over on curb. Lots of interest from passerbys. Morale very high.
12:50
12:46
12:13. Above is a photo of four Brocker/Sandboxers taken by a sympathetic passerby. Note that the person holding the “Do not marry an American” sign is a guest Brocker who is a kindly non-US spouse of a US person. She strongly supports the message of the sign and wants to be known as @LauraSecord. Small group but morale is high.
11:09. Met a fellow working for a bank. He says FATCA is painful.
11:02. Tricia, Marie, NorthernStar and IRSCompliantForever just spoke to a very friendly and receptive journalist who will include mention of our protest in an article He also said that this is the first FATCA protest he is aware of. We cannot mention name of journalist. We are pointing signs at the conference room. Doors are closed now so that banksters cannot see us.
09:37. Peter is standing immediately in front of the conference meeting room. We can see them and they can see us. But we cannot enter.
07:33. Peter and I are on site. We were told us that we would be arrested if we entered building. Tried to leave CBA letters but conference organizer refused and noted that our comments on IBS about CBA were inflammatory.
***
The conference is “Canadian Institute’s 19th Annual REGULATORY COMPLIANCE for Financial Institutions” at the North Building of the Metro Convention Centre in Toronto which has been brought to our attention through the diligence of @Tricia. http://www.regulatorycomplianceforfis.com/
@IRSCompliantForever
Just wanted to say how much I admire the work that you and others have put into this. Absolutely fantastic!!!
@bubblebustin, yes it is. I’m going to be on that show just before Allison is. SO glad she’s doing this!
Still dark outside.
Not a bankster in sight.
IRSCompliantForever asked me to post here that he and Petros are on site at the Canadian Institute gathering at Metro Convention Centre.
They asked if they could leave copies of the CBA Letter. They were refused. They were told some of the comments at Brock were “inflammatory.”
Stay tuned….
UPDATE: IRS Compliant and Petros were told by a security guard if they enter the building, they will be arrested. They argued they are on the sidewalk, which is public property.
Some delegates are accepting the letter and the handouts before they enter the building.
I wish I could be there! No one in the UK even cares about FATCA or how it is eroding our privacy and our rights. I’m so discouraged!
This U.S. law is “inflammatory”
The response to it can’t be expected to be anything less than equal to what has happened to our families. People have already been put through the ringer. Why aren’t they saying this U.S. law is “inflammatory” because that’s what is really the problem.
“Some” of the comments are inflammatory? What about the rest? I guess Peter Hogg’s response to FATCA is also “inflammatory”
Anna Marie on The Current, 8:30 am, FATCA report, listen live on http://www.cbc.ca, radio the current
Here is the link to THE CURRENT
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/episode/2013/11/13/facta-under-fire-from-tax-experts-canadian-citizens/
People should wear warm socks tomorrow. My feet became cold while the rest was warm inside the parka.
Well, I am a little dismayed by the hard line that these people are taking towards extremely peaceful disagreement with their approach to FATCA. They had security come against us right away. Very preemptive and they aren’t playing fair. The security guy first says that since we were on their property that I had to give him all the papers I was trying to hand out, and because I had entered the building I had trespassed. I refused to give him the papers, but I admit entering the premises and I did pee in their washroom. Admitting to this is
perhaps a confession to a crime? Yes, at my suggestion we asked the ladies manning the tables to hand out copies of our letter to the delegates, but they were told only to pass out information from the conference sponsors and no one else.
@Expat in the UK, I too am deeply discouraged in the way the UK seems completely indifferent to our plight. Their capitulation was why I concluded that I had no other realistic option than to renounce. It will be interesting though to see if their willingness to fully cooperate with the US might hopefully mean that at least Expats over here won’t be in their frontier of fire, as Britain will be perceived as a place for US persons to try and hide their money, etc. But I wasn’t about to risk it so decided to surrender the passport.
@Petros, I’m sorry to hear about security there taking such a hard line but confirms my fears that IBS will be increasingly looked upon as an extremist organization… I really admire your guts but am also sure you can also understand why those of us in Britain are too scared to stick our necks out, especially now they’re willing to have us thrown under the bus (even with British citizenship ).
The UK has lost it’s backbone. Expats openly protesting against the US Government and IRS could be targeted, especially anyone with a complex situation. I agree that the frontier in this fight will this be Canada, whereas we’ve already fallen to the ‘enemy’s here. It’s simply about personal survival here…best of luck, and pray you don’t wind up in legal trouble over this. I admire your guts!!!
@monalisa1776 – Just for your information I have looked into the UK legislation regarding the IGA.
The link is – http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/1962/contents/made
The UK banking industry has potentially the following fines to pay if they trip up. They range from a maximum of £300 to £3000. The legislation says ‘maxiumum’ so they won’t necessarily will be fined those amounts.
Those fines are not going to make the banks sweat if they get it wrong on occasion.
But more importantly I see this as a discrimination issue. How can you treat a dual EU/US (or any other EU dual citizen, or sole EU citizen, or foreign-born US citizen with EU citizenship) differently than anyone else. This is data discrimination.
Not in the UK but another country I’ve asked a civil liberties group to consider looking at this very question.
My question is is it possible to carve out resident EU citizens from FATCA reporting leaving Americans with sole US passport left to take the brunt?
It seems to me a fair question for the courts to look at.
At least the status quo for resident EU citizens would be kept leaving the IRS without data.
To contact The Current with Anna Maria Tremonti | CBC Radio
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/contact/
Telephone: Feedback line1-(877) 287-7366 Fax: (416) 205-2371 Mail: The CurrentCBC RadioP. O. Box 500 Station AToronto, ONCanada, M5W 1E6 Twitter: …
If you can, respond in whatever way you feel you are able – in order to fill in the gaps and challenge the misinformation and sins of ommission perpetuated by the CBA spokesperson.
The plight of minors and the disabled deemed incompetent was not raised – that the US ALREADY asserts that their disability income is taxable, and their RDSPs are taxable ‘foreign trusts’. And that for them there is NO remedy – the US prevents them from ever renouncing/relinquishing. This is the already egregious harm that FATCA will just pile on to them and their families.
Same for our children and their RESPs. And our TFSAs.
The CBA spokesperson dodged the issue of ‘intrusiveness’ under a FATCA IGA. He asserted that an IGA was better in that respect.
Listen to his wording over and over. What he chooses to present is the message the CBA wants absorbed.
Write out your points if possible, and if you feel able to use your real name, call the CBC and address the most salient in the briefest but heartfelt way.
What was left out? What do you want Canadians to hear and know? This is an important opportunity. And Anna Marie Tremonte is such an intelligent and astute journalist, that it is obvious that she understood the complexities. We should thank her profusely for her interview and skill.
He did not address the issue and fate of those deemed recalcitrant.
– the issue must be raised about the threat that already exists under the current terms of the US- Canada Tax treaty – regarding our registered savings – particularly the ones created by the Flaherty and Harper government RDSPS, RESPs, TFSAs –
Inflammatory? The truth often is and the fact that the CBA is being preemptive means they are afraid that the truth might get out before their watered down version of it does.
Could this mean that they are having doubts about the Canadian govt helping them out with an IGA? No IGA means the banks either comply and risk breaking Canadian law or they somehow have to untangle themselves from US banking and financial institutions (which, imo, is the way for Canada to start heading. The US financial sector is a toxic asset).
We really need someone big time with a voice to come out for us on this. Someone who can’t be dismissed as “inflammatory” or subdued by threats.
Petros, scary but you should be proud really. They treated you like a G20 protestor – almost – and if they are scared. You win.
You should have pissed on the lecturn. Hope that is inflammatory enough.
Don’t forget, any goon can ask any question or make any demands they want—there are no penalties for demanding your papers or demanding anything. Free speech.
You just don’t have to respond to their demands or questions or whatever.
If problems, ask for the police.
Mark Twain, I did call the police. No response back yet.
http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/popupaudio.html?clipIds=2417543073
link for the radio program on FATCA nov 13
Thanks for all of your input here this morning, badger. I have sent (using my real name and some of your words) the following to CBC’s “the current.”
message of support sent to the Current from Sweden.
Calgary
You can buy Canadian Index funds. They definitely are not subject to 30% withholding. Is there anyway your son will cross the border? If the USA tries to tax him you may apply for supplemental security income
” Supplemental Security Income Home Page
http://www.ssa.gov/ssi/
Supplemental Security Income (SSI) is a Federal income supplement program funded by general tax revenues (not Social Security taxes):
blue ball It is designed to help aged, blind, and disabled people, who have little or no income; and
blue ball It provides cash to meet basic needs for food, clothing, and shelter”
Thanks, Harry.
I don’t want a work-around. I want an out of any so-called US citizenship for my son — he was born in Canada and never registered as a US birth abroad. He may or may not cross the US / Canada border. There is family across that border. I want the same rights for him as for any other Canadian.
Calgary, it is best to act if an IGA is passed and then figure a way around it. Why I ask about crossing the border, It is is the only way a Canadian (he was born in Canada, so he should be a Canadian) will have to pay FBAR penalties. If he is Canadian and owns Canadian assets the CRA will not collect from him for any USA taxes while he was a Canadian. I doubt they will even bother him, if he does not have Canadian citizenship. Can you open additional accounts under $50 K? You may even able send half the assets to a new account.
Harry, as my previous comment on this, and I am talking about not just my son, but any others like him in Canadian families:
…thank you for trying to help me. I think you read my concerns incorrectly.
I do not want a work-around for this, a way to stay under $50,000 balance — I want the same rights for US Persons in Canada to benefit from the same RDSP rules (and all other rules) as any other Canadians. I want to my son, thus my family (as well as other such individuals and their families) out from under this immoral absurdity. I want USA Residence Based Taxation so all countries have the same type of legislation from which to tax their “people.”
The Canadian Registered Disability Savings Plan, RDSP (as well as the Registered Education Savings Plan, RESP for with which Canadians, including US Person Canadians, are encouraged to save to help pay for the down-the-road high cost of education for their kids), for one thing, is ONE account only with the first requirement a Disability Tax Credit from the CRA. The RDSP CANNOT be broken into several smaller accounts like RRSPs. I am compliant; I have renounced and I am out. My son, born in Canada, raised in Canada, never registered as a US birth abroad, never lived in the US, never had any benefit from the US (has visited the US relatives less than 10 times in his 40 years) is, the US tells me, ENTRAPPED into US citizenship.
Yes, the bully is Obama; the bully is the USA. It is not taxes to be paid that is my particular concern. I just want an ending for my family (and for all of us). I want Canada to abide by Canadian law, not US law.
Where are our FATCA Protestors? It has been over five hours since we last heard from them when they got “kicked to the curb” (Calgary411 gets credit for that expression).
I’m becoming concerned.
Me too, Blaze. I hope they’re having a beer and warming up somewhere.