Update 3:
Those in or near London, England might be interested that a similar event to take place there on Sunday, July 28, 2013, is in the works. I will post the details as the become available.
UDPATE 2:
Saturday, June 15
Don Mills United Church – 126 O’Connor Dr., Toronto, Ontario M4K 2K7
Click here for directions (at the corner of Pape and O’Connor, see google maps). There is some street parking.
Doors will open at 9:45 a.m.
UPDATE 1:
- There is to be no taping/recording/videoing of ANY part of the day.
- The day will be extended to encourage more people to attend.
- Attendance is free.
The morning session will focus primarily on the emotional issues and the afternoon session on practical issues.
Session I: The Financial and Emotional Costs of U.S. Citizenship Abroad
- When: Saturday June 15, 2013 – 10:00 a.m. – 12:00 noon
- Where: Downtown Toronto – Near U of T – Final location posted on June 13
- Who: a Senior Licensed Psychologist
Description: Since 2011, the Obama administration has subjected millions of people Living outside the United States to a vicious attack. This includes Reaching into Canada. The IRS has literally threatened millions of innocent persons living outside the United States with fines exceeding their personal wealth–up to 380% of their financial assets. For many, this experience has taken a toll on their mental and physical health, and that has been even greater than the financial damage. A psychologist will address the emotional issues associated with the threats and demands that IRS is making. He will describe his own emotional experience and encourage others to share their own emotional reactions to these circumstances. Strategies will be discussed on how to cope with the stress caused by the IRS and the difficulties of living as a U.S. person abroad.
Session II: US Citizenship Abroad and Compliance Issues – Where we have come from. Where we are. Where we may be going
- When: 1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.
- Who: An experienced Toronto lawyer
- What: Focus on more practical issues
Description: Beginning in the summer of 2011 the IRS aided by the media and cross-border professionals began a relentless attack on U.S. citizens in Canada. The spectre of FATCA has worsened the situation. The purpose of this session will be to review:
- Summer of 2011 – where we have come from
- 2011 to now – where we are now
- 2014 and onwards – where we may be going
What might this mean for U.S. citizenship in Canada? What are some possible responses? How can/should you respond to a difficult situation?
Please note that although this event will take place on June 15, it is NOT a session on how to file a U.S. tax return. The discussion will however include relevant U.S. tax issues and reporting/information returns.
You may feel you need help because:
- You are or have been threatened by the imposition of life-altering fines for failing to file information returns you had no reason to know existed;
- You feel victimized by the Canadian and other non-U.S. media, who have constantly referred to you as a “tax cheat” and advised you to “come clean”;
- You feel “taken advantage of” by the so-called “cross-border professionals”.
You just want to be compliant with the law, but you receive conflicting advice, and nobody seems to be able to tell you how to do it, yet they are asking for “huge” fees; - You feel completely misunderstood by the non-U.S. citizens in your life. They can’t understand the feelings of fear, betrayal and injustice that you feel. In some cases, this experience has put your marriage at risk;
- Your health has been dramatically affected by all of this. You can’t sleep. You worry. You have gained or lost weight. You are no longer the happy person you were. You feel that your life has been stolen from you.
First published May 27, 2013
I”m born in Canada but got a US passport at 18. Father was american. . thought it might be an advantage to have it (haha!). I never receive any info about an obligation to file US taxes at the time I acquired citizenship or since. . the only notice I got was that I could be drafted for war if they had another draft.
Anyways. . last year I backfiled 6 years of taxes to IRS. . .Owing nothing. Did not hear a thing back. . for all I know . . all those hours of filing 6 years of taxes. . . and the package could have disappeared into the Grand Canyon. Most US citizens in Canada do not file. . . I was stupid to try and “do the right thing”. . big waste of time. I’ll avoid ever going to USA and let my US passport expire.
@all, Don’t count on this session being recorded. Please note: “He will describe his own emotional experience and encourage others to share their own emotional reactions to these circumstances.” I don’t think this will happen at all if the video is running, so I doubt that the organizers are going to want this on Youtube.
I agree, Petros.
@Petros & Calgary
Makes sense.
@OfCanada
It continues to become clear that those who tried to be or become compliant will be the biggest losers in this. Thank your “lucky stars” that you didn’t owe any tax.
I would bet that those who file last will pay the least.
@USCitizenAbroad
With a possible move to residency based taxation in the air, I couldn’t agree with you more.
Notice the deadly silence on the RBT front? Imagine the masses of USP’s out there wondering what to do when and if it becomes mainstream news that a change like this may be imminent? This is huge news, yet there is NO coverage of it that I know of other than the little that exists within the expat community.
@bubblebustin,sounds like a big nothing. How are Americans supposed to support RBT when they and their media generally to to be seeking otherwise?
Even Zimbabwe, of all places, seems to have a better grip on the matter than the US. Just look at their current ongoing debate about switching from a source-based income tax to a residence-based one:
http://www.newsday.co.zw/2013/05/29/experts-attack-proposed-taxation-system/
@Swisspinoy
Yes, it’s unfortunate that many in the US view an end to citizenship based taxation as a narrowing of the tax base through what might seem to them as a loophole (territorial based taxation) granted to USP’s abroad. What they aren’t aware of though, is that in this case their exceptionalism is applied only to their stupidity and shortsightedness.
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How apropos that this session falls on the date 1040’s, etc, are due. 😛
If you’re interested here’s a good read. Seems like the US Congress is doing their best to tap into Canadian retirement benefits anyway they can.
http://www.moodystax.com/new-us-tax-law-may-negatively-affect-canadian-retirement-plans/
@itacaf
It’s completely outrageous. They can charge tax on income that isn’t taxable under the treaty. What is the bloody point of having a treaty? And CPP? How can CDN govt go along with this? Sure glad I renounced. This is just going too far.
“The IRS also appears sympathetic to the double-tax concerns that may arise under the interaction of the NII with US tax treaties, but seems uncertain as to how to technically resolve the dilemma.”
Hmmm, lets see, how’s about getting rid of citizenship-based taxation. That would resolve the dilemma for sure.
Pacifica777
As I am new to the Isaac Brock Society I had difficulty finding the site where I posted my concerns. Just found it & am so pleased you took the time to answer some of my concerns. I really appreciate it.
Yes, the FBAR penalties would be my biggest liability …. My concern here is the IGA agreement ….. If Canada signs on & the frustrating part is we are left in the dark on that one.
Also, the bank, upon learning that I was An American
person (born there) refused to allow me to open a joint investment account with my Canadian husband
& threatened to freeze my RRSP account.
Not sure how much it will help but am writing letters to Harper, Flaherty & my MP & hopefully will attend the meeting in Toronto on the 15th.
Tks again
Thanks for joining us here, Tortured.
Thank you for relaying to us the information about your Canadian bank refusing to allow you to open a joint investment account with my Canadian husband and threatened to freeze your RRSP. I don’t recall other reports of this happening in Canada. Can you share with us which bank that is?
Could you please include in your correspondence (email addresses below) this very important information about your bank’s actions and your concerns regarding Canada signing an IGA with the US to:
Kevin Shoom Kevin.Shoom@fin.gc.ca
Senior Chief, International Taxation and Special Projects
Business Income Tax Division
Department of Finance
Ottawa, Canada K1A 0G5
Telephone (613) 992-2980 Facsimile (613) 943-2486 Teletypewriter (613) 995-1455
Government of Canada
Cc: Finance Minister James Flaherty (jim.flaherty@parl.gc.ca) ; Prime Minister Stephen Harper (pm@pm.gc.ca) ; and your Member of Parliament
PS — I sincerely hope you take advantage of the opportunity to attend the June 15th meeting in Toronto. Many of us here wish meetings like that were happening in our locations.
@Tortured, Pacifica777
This is the first incidence I’ve heard of where a Canadian financial institution is shutting a US person out of banking services. This is absolutely terrible.
Tortured, Pacifica and bubblebustin,
This is the first I’ve read of this happening in Canada as well. It is an important indication of what is to come and needs to be reported to all who will listen.
Hi Tortured,
I’m glad you found IBS. It has been a comfort to many unfortunate ‘US persons’. I think it is absolutely worth your while to write Harper, Flaherty and your MP to explain the situation with your bank.
I am curious as to how your bank found out about your US birth place. Did you fill out an application form that required you to reveal your US citizenship? If so, were you aware about FATCA when you applied for the investment account?
@Tortured –
Closing USCs’ bank accounts has become common in Europe but, as others have said, this would be the first known example in Canada. Can you provide more specifics?
Yes, more specifics are definitely needed. This *may* be the event that triggers a charter challenge. *But*, more needs to be known before jumping to any conclusions.
Hi Tortured,
That’s awful what your bank did. The first I’ve heard of this happening in Canada. Could you let us know more details? This is really outrageous.
I hope you do attend the meeting in Toronto on the 15th. I wish I could, too far away unfortunately. I have met with a few Brockers locally, though, and it’s really great to get together with others living through this nightmare. And we are getting through it — it is overwhelmingly daunting at first, but by reading, asking questions and pooling our experiences here, we’re each able to get a handle on our own situation and start taking back control of our lives.
Hi Tortured,
Calgary411 and I would like to get in touch with you. Would you contact us at pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca Thanks.
Here’s a link to Maple Sandbox on another incident, not quite the same, but scary…
http://maplesandbox.ca/2013/european-fatca-hearing/#comment-7409
Opened my email this morning to find an invitation from BMO-Nesbitt Burns to attend a local seminar on “US Cross-border Tax Issues Canadians” on June 17th.
Topics include “Tax implications for Canadian citizens buying U.S Property”, “Filing obligations, penalties and strategies for U.S. citizens, those living in Canada, and Green Card holders”.
Are there those who care to help me compile a list of pertinent questions for the bank and the presenter Mo Ahmad, Director of Trowbridge Professional Corp.?