Well today one of my children was able to renounce U.S. citizenship. The monkey of U.S. citizenship is now off the back of one more Canadian citizen.
Well today one of my children was able to renounce U.S. citizenship. The monkey of U.S. citizenship is now off the back of one more Canadian citizen.
Congratulations!
citizenship based taxation=citizenship+taxation
citizenship based taxation-taxation=citizen
citizenship based taxation-citizen=tax with no one to pay it.
citizen-citizenship based taxation=freedom!
Way to go!
[This phrase is not just cliché — it is literal instruction for sanity and survival.]
I assume your child was “wealthy” right? 🙂
Apart from these few mega rich who want to renounce to save on taxes, renunciations of the young and middle class is very short-sighted from the US’s point of view.
If any of these renunciations go into business and create wealth and jobs in future are they going to do it in the US? Answer NO.
But homelander Americans believe these nouveau riche would be trying to burst down the door to re-enter the US and re-take US citizenship because the US is the only country you can make money in. It’s true these people may want to open a subsidiary in the US to tap into that market, but the HQ doesn’t have to be US-based.
Citizenship-based taxation is like a Christmas Tree farmer allowing young trees to be cut down one-by-one over the years with nothing left for Christmas 2020 to sell!
Congratulations, that is great!
Congrats to your child! Did the renunciation go smoothly?
@recalcitrant,
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!!! to this child of yours — the one that was allowed to make this decision.
This one of your children has seen first hand what US citizenship would mean for him in Canada and, I am sure, has made a very informed decision. There will be opportunities in other parts of the world if he wants to explore those and the big wide world outside the USA at some point! With this off his mind, he will now be better able to concentrate on his education, his future plans, his life.
We should all remember you, a parent and Guardian, have been denied the right to renounce on behalf of another of your children, because of the developmental disability of that child!
Very good to hear, Congratulations! Another friend of mine in Calgary has just got her appointment set an she’s very excited.
@peg11- It went as expected. He was pelted with the usual hypothetical situations where no longer being a U.S. citizen could possibly be detrimental to his future. But he was not dissuaded.
@john- it is a shame that the U.S. thinks that you have to be rich in order to want out of an oppressive system. It is also an insult to those who aren’t rich to believe that they don’t have a brain and no sense of right or wrong.
@calgary411- yes, his decision was very much an informed one. He is studying to be an engineer and realized that if he remains a U.S. citizen that his job prospects in this world will be very restricted. This would have been true for him even in his home country of Canada. But even at this stage in life it doesn’t take much for an industrious young person to find himself/herself butting up against the FBAR account reporting rules and the IRS investing restrictions.
I am a former teacher I many times I have encountered many young people who have well over 10,000 in financial assets. It isn’t hard for young people to make serious money in some regions of Canada. So already at this age you can see that there is no net present value to U.S. citizenship. Any future value that it may have is purely hypothetical but as you improve your economic situation its associated future expenses and option restrictions are very real.
In the end the U.S. behaving like the merchant who has a failing retail business. When this merchant looks at his/her business he/she can only acknowledge the existence of the unhappy customers who return and complain but never thinks about the customers he could have had but who stayed away because of the public reputation that the operation has.
One rule in retail is that bad publicity travels fast and for free. The U.S. now has 6-7 million people who will give it a lot of bad publicity. They don’t count the people who they could have had but who now will not buy from a place where both the service and product are shoddy.
@recal, Congratulations for your son!
Was your son born in US or Canada?
A while ago I found out that my MP had been born in Illinois. My concern is that no elected official in Canada should have dual citizenship. It took several emails to finally get the following response. I think we should all push our MPs and MLAs on this issue.
“Dear Mr. Fuller,
On behalf of the Hon. Diane Ablonczy, Member of Parliament for Calgary-Nose Hill, thank you for your recent e-mail.
Ms. Ablonczy renounced her U.S. Citizenship when she became a Canadian of Canada.
Thank you for taking the time to share your concerns.
Sincerely,
Executive Assistant
Hon. Diane Ablonczy, MP
Calgary-Nose Hill”
How about that ‘Canadian of Canada’. As Petros mentioned to me, is there any other kind? Thanks Petros, I actually missed that.
@saddened123- he was born in Canada
@Recal, Thank you for reply, the reason I asked my son was born in Canada and will just now be getting his SSN to start the whole process.. Filing and then Renounce. I just hate that he even has to be on the Radar, but I feel there is no other way but to come forward and get it over with. He could just stick his head in the sand but that maybe worse or maybe better than coming forward, who knows? It is a hard decision to make.. I guess your son had to go to the US as well to get SSN. Did he file 5 years back or 6??
Sorry for being so nosey, hope you don’t mind..
I know a US-person, who has valuable patents and planning to start a business. He has good chance to make huge money and was planning to start a company in the USA and have a subsidiary in his native country. But after learning about the complex tax code, incomprehensible forms and threat of life-altering penalties for even honest mistake (even if there is no tax due), he is now in the process of relinquishing his US citizenship.
He is now planning to start a company in tax friendly nation and if necessary start a subsidiary in the USA. His consideration is not taxes, since when he sells his company, he doesn’t mind paying capital gains and it doesn’t mater which country he pays.
Biggest problem is, when he explained about his situation investors don’t want the risk and complexity of US tax code. No one wants to waste too much time on filing complex forms and threat of jail, if he commits innocent mistake, for example, don’t know about a requirement such as FBAR. He is a passionate scientist/researcher and can’t afford such huge distraction that takes away his focus from his business.
If he lucky enough to make few hundred millions, he don’t need to worry about inheritance tax. The USA is imposing capital controls in-disguise and it is real problem for him, because all his family is living in his native country.
Why I am saying this is: Even if you kid has a bright idea and if he needs to start a company in the Silicon Valley, he can always do it on L1 visa. Many companies in Silicon Valley were started by immigrants on even before they got Green card. The US citizenship is not necessary and in-fact it is a liability.
Some times, it is desirable to keep his US-citizenship. If he likes to work for a large company and build his carrier, then he must keep his citizenship because still the US has many large and innovative companies such as Cisco, Intel, Boeing or Apple etc. But if he has no intention of living and working in the USA, it is best to relinquish US citizenship. If he is successful, he can always sponsor his own non-immigrant temporary L1 or H1 visa to work in the USA, while getting salary in Canada. He may need to file taxes for US sourced income for the days he spent in the USA, which is much simpler and less risky than global tax net for the US-citizens.
@itacaf,
I didn’t get a reply to this January 2012 correspondence to Diane Ablonczy’s office:
@saddened123- I don’t mind you asking. We can’t help each other if we aren’t willing to share. My son has not yet filed anything with the IRS but neither has he yet made enough to meet the filing requirement. However I guess now that he is over 18 1/2 that he will have to file in order to prove that he never had any filing requirement. He’ll do his six years- 5 back + Current = 6 yrs. ttl.
He received his SSN either when or shortly after we received his Report of U.S. citizen birth abroad. We never did have to go to the States to get it. I should say that this report was also taken away from him at yesterday’s meeting.
I have read of no requirement that you must file before you renounce. And I don’t believe that any mention was made of it at the interview. He can’t be taxed anyway since he was born a citizen of both countries.
I agree that coming forward and renouncing is much better than living your life in fear of being discovered. Now of course you could always just choose to comply but then you have to live a life of endless humiliation from the IRS and the State department. I don’t see any dignity in having to each year file a 2555 telling the IRS that you are still residing in your country of birth or chosen residence. Renounciation is the only choice if you want a life that allows you to look yourself in the mirror each morning.
@recal, Thank you very much for the reply, my son is 29 and will have to travel to US to get his SSN. He is nervous about filing because he has lived at home and saved and invested all his earning. But I feel he does not have much of a choice.. How miserable to have to hide and look over your shoulder at a young age. I just hope he doesn’t get hit too hard will all his investments…It really makes me mad mostly for the Accidental Americans it is just not fair.
@saddened123- I am sorry to hear about your son but his situation is a prime example of why it is so important to get rid of U.S. citizenship inside of that 16-18 1/2 window of opportunity. It is the only break that the U.S. government is going to give you so you better use it while you can.
@saddened, I also had to travel to the US to get a SSN. Thought that it was funny that they called it a field office and don’t allow the consulates to handle the issuing. Just another obstacle to compliance.
Congratulations both to your son and to you. I’m sure his decision is a relief to you as well as to him. And I’m sure neither of you will regret it. With all our various warts, and various concerns many of us have about some aspects of our current federal government, I think we can be far prouder of our Canada than I ever was of the United States when I was one of its citizens, or could possibly be now that it’s become what it is today. We have a great, wonderful country, which deserves our undivided and sole loyalty and allegiance. “Dual citizenship” is something I’ve never had nor wanted for a moment, and a concept that I find very difficult to accept.
@Bubblebustin, Yes another aggravation. He called them this morning to verify what he needed to bring and they told him that they would have to speak to me when he arrives and told him to make sure I would be available to answer questions.. I would like to tell them all just to F-off.. I am so sick of it.. so I will be waiting by the phone!!
It will be nice when the nitemare is over, if it ever is..After the filing deadline next month something new will come out making it even worse I am sure.. The US and there Drama!!
@saddened123- Now I have a question for you. Of course if you don’t want to answer then I will have to accept that,
My question is, if your son is 29 then why would the need to speak with you? The Calgary Consulate never asked to speak with my and my son is just over 18. I’ve never heard of such a request being made.
@recal, I know isn’t that funny. Someone else on Brock said the same thing a while ago, that the person at SS had to call them.. I don’t know, maybe she just wants to verify my SSN and make sure it is not a scam..they will probably ask questions about my SSN number maybe where I worked last in the states.. etc. I was going with him but I have a bad back and it bothers me to ride in a car..even though it is only about 2 hours there. She told me when I called months ago that if I came with him he could get the SSN number the next day instead of waiting up to 2 weeks by mail.. You would think having all the documents with him why would they want to talk to me..it will be interesting.. I will let you know what they ask. Maybe have you filed your taxes?? HA!!
When I went to get my first ever SSN, I had to bring documents dating back to when I entered Canada proving that I lived in Canada each decade. Canadian income tax assessments didn’t count, neither did BC medical even though you have to be a resident to receive BC med. They are really concerned that you may have been issued a number already.