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Hi Petros,
Really glad to see you’ve created a new place for us to deal with all things FATCA. Thanks!
Hi Peter, I would like to join in!
I love this format!
This story and comments has been moved: http://isaacbrocksociety.wordpress.com/canuckdoc/
Re Canadian children and the US claim of citizenship
As one of the thousands of new Canadians who discovered rather abruptly this past summer that the United States still claimed us as American citizens and required us to pay their taxes, I very reluctantly complied. But what I have great difficulty accepting is that our children–born, bred, raised, educated, living, working, voting, paying taxes, and raising their own families in Canada–are somehow Americans and liable to the same inane requirement to pay US taxes.*
It appears that these Canadian children/citizens are being overlooked by their government in Ottawa and lack the protection of that government. Instead of ignoring this issue, the Canadian government should intervene on their behalf and suggest to the US authorities, politely or otherwise, to back off. “These children are our citizens, not yours. Leave them alone.”
Mr. Harper, Mr. Flaherty, and the various Members of Parliament should acknowledge this as a matter of considerable important and act on behalf of our (and their) children. Unfortunately, at this point I can not get anyone interested in this issue. Suggestions?
*According to United States legislation a child born anywhere in the world to American citizens is considered a US citizen. Conversely, a child born in the United States, regardless of the parent’s citizenship, is considered an American citizen even if the child eventually wants only the citizenship of the parents.
If it’s any comfort, the bar seems to be set lower for children dual from birth to expatriate. See
http://www.advisor.ca/news/industry-news/cut-u-s-tax-ties-68108
Thanks for the info on children claimed by US. The problem is still that they must file last 5 years of taxes in order to “qualify” for reliquishing. If they have never lived, worked, et al in US, why is that necessary? There needs to be another approach, i.e., from the Canadian gov’t protecting its citizens.
Peter, am I able to be considered here for the ability to begin new threads? As you know, I’ve commented on several others, but I still haven’t figured out how to do a new post.
Thanks.
I was born in Yonkers, NY and moved to Canada with my family just after my 16th birthday. I am now 63 and have only recently learned about the IRS and FBAR reporting requirements for US citizens. How could I have known? Instructions were not stamped on my butt at birth and this isn’t something I could reasonably expect to learn through the media in Canada.
I find it incredible that I am required to file a tax return on my Canadian income but cannot collect US Social Security because I have not paid into the system. Shouldn’t my “in kind” income relate to my “in kind” social contribution?
First time visitor. US Born, chose to live in Canada for the past 18 years. Became a Canadian, now renouncing….
Bruce Newman>/a>:
Take as much as possible and give back as little as possible. That is how the United States treats citizens outside its borders.
A useful listing of taxation mismatches is provided through
http://usxcanada.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/2011-dec-13-valli/
Here is one symbolic ugly little detail I have experienced, reported on here for the first time. Since you are 63, you would also be eligible for a $10 lifetime senior pass to the US national park system – but only if you dwell within the United States. Citizenship counts for nothing.
http://store.usgs.gov/pass/senior.html
So you’ve been filing all that paper and maybe paying taxes too? That doesn’t matter. You don’t matter either. Welcome to a regime of taxation without representation … and without benefits.
@usxcanada
Actually, I have a $10 lifetime senior pass. Residency doesn’t matter, apparently, as I only produced my NB driver’s license and my NY birth certificate to get it.
Bruce Newman:
The info on the senior pass for national parks is about as woolly and contradictory as usual IRS instructions. The link above is filled with fuzz. And then there’s application of the “rules.” I was specifically told that US residence was required. Perhaps they thought New Brunswick was the state between New Jersey and New York?
@usxcanada
It seems clear enough on the NPS website: “Citizens or permanent residents of the United Sates age 62 or older”. I bought my pass at Acadia National Park which had the same requirements and I had no trouble at all. I will say, however, that having the pass is not the last hurdle. When you go through an entrance gate, you need to provide the pass AND a photo ID and an acceptable ID is a US driver’s license which, of course, I don’t have. My birth certificate did the trick, although I felt it was marginal and might not always work.
I certainly do agree with you about the application of the rules. In phone calls I made to the IRS and re: FBAR as well as numerous reports of incidents at the border, there appears to be a lot of room for personal interpretation. No one, for example, could tell me how many years I had to go back regarding income tax and FBAR filings.
@Petros
I live in Vancouver B.C. What credit unions here would protect me from FATCA ?
“JANUARY 21, 2012 AT 12:44 AM
@tiger, You can protect yourself in the following ways. Tell your bank that you are not a US citizen and that if they give your info to the IRS, that you will take your funds out.
When my bank (TD) gave me an ambivalent response, I moved my accounts to a credit union. If you move to Duca in Ontario, tell them I referred you.
End all investments in US investment products, stocks or mutual funds. Sell your condo or other real estate in the US if you have any.
When you go to a new institution, do not fill out any W9 forms or let them have your social security number if you have one.
And last of all, political activism. We have to get the Canadian government end this FATCA nonsense.”
Bird – Consider http://www.ccec.bc.ca/
Glad to find you all. I am in Brazil.
I would like to ask a question. Sorry, can’t quite figure out how to do it.
I would like to ask a question regarding relinquishment of US citizenship and subsequent fallout under 8854 and the exit tax.
@Incredulous
As noted above,
(1) To comment on a post, just use a unique alias and an e-mail address–the e-mail won’t be published; if you have a WordPress ID you can use that too. Comments are welcome!! If you use an alias, please use something that is unique and use the same one each time you comment.
i.e., You can go to this section, upper right-hand corner and click on one of these if your question falls into any of these categories,
ASK YOUR QUESTIONS ABOUT:
Expat Taxes and FBAR
Relinquishment and Renunciation of US citizenship
FATCA
then go down to the very bottom where there will be a “Leave a Reply” box.
Just type your question in that box where it says “Enter your comment here…
” then click on “POST COMMENT”
and someone who has an answer or suggestion for your question will reply when they see it. You will see the reply somewhere in the thread eventually, usually not long.
You could also AUTHORS’ RECENT POSTS toward the end of the page and click on one of the posts, read the thread to see if that would be an appropriate place for your question, then follow the same procedure as above by typing your question in the “Leave a Reply” box.
Hope that helps.
(2) If you want to be able to create new threads (posts) on subjects related to US persons living abroad, please just make a comment below and you will be invited to become an “author” by an administrator. You will need to create a WordPress ID (at wordpress.com ). Aliases are also welcome by WordPress.
@hijacked — It looks like you figured out where to ask your question. Great.
How did everyone join this blog? I would be interested in posting something from time to time as well! Admin – please invite if this is still a possibility!
Kind Regards
Please invite me to your site.
I’d like to start a thread.
@mauryw
I would love to start some letters :Re Canadian children and the US claim of citizenship and get some attention and ACTION drawn here. If we don’t stand up and fight for this, more innocent people, thousands or even millions of CANADIAN citizens will be affected by this. I too am in the same boat and have children who I think COULD CLAIM Us Citizenship thanks to my birthplace, but they do not want it. They are born and raised in canada and choose to keep their sole citizenship and loyalty here, go figure. Now the US/IRS is saying they HAVE TO register as they are citizens whether they want it or not…..and why??…so they can be subject to their fees and reporting structure, I dont think so! I never registered them at a US consulate (thank god) and sure as heck dont plan too. It should be an option and a choice, isnt t his the land of the FREE?
My fear is one day crossing the US border with them and with my soon to have CLN in hand, that my innocent children are then questioned and slaughterd basically on the spot for not having a US passport and reporting to the IRS. The Canadian government needs to stand up for this, to protect its citizens,people born in canada especially should not be dragged into this mess. This is just absolutely disgusting and disturbing how completely innocent children with just having a parent or grandparent are given the ball and chain to the US for life!!! For one to even register their kids or help them renouce, they have to first PROVE they are US Citizens, pay huge fees for forms….go to the US and get a SSN and then…after you file 5 years, you can renounce. Come on Canada, get some balls and help us all!!! Our children need you, this is canadas future and we are all law abiding citizens who have dedicated our life to Canada and sworn our allegiance!
So, where should we start writing folks?