HOUSE OF COMMONS
2nd Session, 41st Parliament
NOTICE OF MEETING
Standing Committee on Finance
Meeting No. 34
Tuesday, May 13, 2014
3:30 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.
(613-947-7776)
Orders of the Day
Televised
Bill C-31, An Act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on February 11, 2014 and other measures
Witnesses
3:30 p.m. to 5:00 p.m.
As an individual
Allison Christians, Professor
H. Heward Stikeman Chair in Tax Law, McGill University
Credit Union Central of Canada
Marc-André Pigeon, Director
Financial Sector Policy
Moodys Gartner Tax Law LLP
Roy Berg, Director
US Tax Law
Videoconference – Toronto, Ontario
Investment Industry Association of Canada
Ian Russell, President and Chief Executive Officer
5:00 p.m. to 6:30 p.m.
As an individual
Arthur Cockfield, Professor
Faculty of Law, Queen’s University
Portfolio Management Association of Canada
Katie Walmsley, President
As an individual
Lynne Swanson
Videoconference – New York, New York
As an individual
Max Reed, Attorney
White and Case LLP
I am posting this apart from the cross-post from Sandbox so more people will see it. In addition to Lynne, some familiar faces, Allison, Roy Berg and Arthur Cockfield. It will be televised. Does anyone know how to record this?
I believe this is the House of Commons committee, not the Senate committee. Getting the video recordings from the latter has proved problematic for some folks, including me. Not so for the House meetings, however. Once the meeting is finished, follow the procedures I describe in my post on this website concerning the meeting on May 1 here
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2014/05/01/house-finance-committee-qa-today-on-fatca/
just after the link given in that post. You may use the same link to the parlvu website, but then click on the May 13 date on the calendar and scroll down to the appropriate time for the video links.
You can also watch the video live, but depending on your internet connection and streaming, this may be less satisfactory than waiting until the meeting is over and downloading one of the video formats. The download may take some minutes, but once it’s on your desktop you can watch it in your operating system’s media browser (Windows Media Player, for PCs). just double-click on the file in either Mac or Windows platforms and it should launch. With the video file itself, you can pause, fast-forward or go back to review portions at will, using the “scrub” bar at the bottom of the window. That way if there’s someone’s comments you don’t care to listen to, you can do this (this was an issue for me in the two previous meetings where substantial parts of both meetings weren’t FATCA-related, not going to be the case on the 13th I suspect).
Should be interesting and provoke some fireworks, as I suspect from the list of names there may be some FATCA-friendly witnesses as well as those whom we know are opposed to FATCA or at least many parts of it.
So far, I see that CPAC is on Shaw Cable in Calgary on channel 123, and is part of “Basic Cable, digital box not required”.
If this was happening only a few months ago I would have thought I was hallucinating. We’ve been heard, and they’re listening! We’ve come a long way baby, congratulations everyone. Lynne, in spite of no longer being a US citizen may actually be the perfect person to represent individuals, as this is not about our treatment as US persons by the Canadian government, but the treatment we are receiving as Canadians in Canada. A wonderful spokesperson for this and many more reasons.
The following link is the official House of Commons Notice of Meeting web page for this meeting. It has the same information as in the post above by Tricia, but the formatting and fonts make it clearer (at least to me) who is videoconferencing from where. If you’re interested.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Pub=committeemeetingnotice&Acronym=FINA&Mee=34&Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=41&Ses=2
On a final note about the video downloads: these may not be available immediately after the meeting ends. I believe it may take them a little time to get the video files up onto the website, so if you aren’t watching live, you might want to wait until 8pm or so that evening before trying to download a video file of the meeting. I’m not sure what the time lag will be; it may not be as long as I’m suggesting, but don’t panic if you try to find a file download at 6:32pm and there isn’t anything there yet.
… and yes I agree, Lynne is the perfect spokesperson for both this and the Sandbox blogs, IMO. Seeing the names of Allison Christians, Arthur Crockfield, and I think also Marc-André Pigeon on that list of witnesses is very encouraging. I know Christians and Crockfield both have major reservations about the IGA, and I’m pretty sure that Credit Union Central of Canada isn’t exactly thrilled about all this and probably is going to be asking some pointed questions about which kinds of credit unions, especially those which don’t accept any non-residents of their province of registry as account holders, are going to have to be reporting anything at all. I’m less clear on where the other witnesses are coming from, but with these four on the side of the angels, I think it should be an interesting meeting. I look forward to viewing the whole thing, but on video clip so I can take breaks without missing anything …
@All,
Could someone give me a score card on each name? Who is in our corner, who is not, who is unknown.
Thanks,
Canada giving FATCA the bum’s rush is about preventing every country in the world the ability to lay claim on law-abiding Canadian citizens while residing in Canada, just because they are their citizen, former permanent resident – or haven’t produced a piece of paper to prove they aren’t either.
Man my blood is boiling.
We exited the OVDP some weeks ago. We paid the huge fines.
Now the IRS sends me a letter saying they want an addition $31k due to failure to file informational returns!
They want tax, penalties and interest for 3 years covered in OVDP.
I assume this is just them messing up but it’s going to cost me time and money. Jokers.
This is AWFUL, Neill! What a living nightmare. Maybe it’s time to contact the taxpayer’s advocate.
@Neill
Thanks for letting us know… that is what I am fearing is going to happen to everyone caught in this sinking sand trap… We are damned either way u put it… Maybe its their plan that everyone who is effected by this go to the US & live on their social services… from what I hear… everyone is entitled to that… at the rate this is going… I have warned everyone that I met about this… professional people… go elsewhere… money u may make in the states will be the noose around your neck if u leave… don’t do it… save yourself the stress
The letters tell me the amount is due and I have to pay it by Jun 9.
My tax attorney thinks that they haven’t processed the credit years yet. Some hopefully it all works out.
This is the kind of crap you have to deal with from this organization. Everything costs you money as you chase their weirdness.
Of course trying to ring the IRS is a 20 mins on hold job.
@George: Allison, Arthur and Lynne are in our corner.
Max Reed is unknown to us, but is a Canadian-American tax lawyer in the US who wrote an article telling Canadians to get compliant before the FATCA time bomb goes off.
Roy Berg is a lawyer with Moody’s. He has been in our corner on some issues and has represented some Canadians well. He has also raised some technical issues about some accounts, so I don’t know what aspect he will address.
I suspect the credit union rep will be less enthusiastic about the IGA than the banksters. I don’t know what the portfolio manager person will say.
We can expect the Finance Sector Policy director to be Rah Rah, Finance Canada is wonderful.
There is one name missing who would be in our corner. I know as recently as Tuesday, Murray Rankin was expecting that person to be there. I hope they are able to work it out.
For those of you who are in or near Ottawa, you can attend the meeting as an observer. If you can make it as a group or as individuals, that would be a great show of support. As someone has said, I think we can safely conclude Finance Canada will have their officials sitting right behind or near the panel members. Brockers and Sandboxers could help to balance that out–or even get there early enough to nab those seats. That would be a great show of support for our side.
Based on the other panel members, it appears I will be the lone voice of one million Canadians. I will do my best to represent you.
My bet is that Roy will address the issues he mentioned in his latest articles: i.e Canada is trying to cheat the US on what they consider reportable accounts.
Thanks, Blaze. If you have one minute to talk about it, please mention how much the IGA puts at risk Canadians green card holder in the US who knew nothing about FBAR.
There can be reel victims there, as the US considers them real tax evaders.
@noone: I can’t get into any of the details in my presentation. Instead I am focusing on the fact that we are Canadians and making a suggestion that should work for all of us.
Please consider submitting a brief to the Finance Committee.
A lawyer by the name of Max Reed successfully petitioned to have Rob Ford audited in 2011. Probably not a friend of former, now deceased Finance Minister Flaherty, a long time friend of the Ford family.
http://spacing.ca/toronto/2011/05/24/why-i-sought-an-audit-of-rob-ford/
@ Neill
This is so outrageous and I fear you are one of the FATCA’d canaries in the coal mine. We will all face this in the future if we don’t fight it now. What will you do? Can you refuse their extortion and never go there again?
@Blaze,
About what might be expected in terms of testimony from Roy Berg. Read the following comments – from someone living – and making a living, as a compliance professional in Canada, who says that:
…….”…As a resident of Canada, complaining about FATCA is a lot like complaining about the weather – it makes us feel better but doesn’t change it. Fortunately the IGA mitigates the worst of the effects of FATCA and all right minded people would agree that life under the IGA is much better than would have been without it. The Department of Finance of Canada did a great job explaining its reasoning for entering into the IGA and what was averted by doing so.2..”…. Roy Berg, from http://www.moodysgartner.com/in-fatca-land-a-canadian-trust-is-a-bank/
and,
…”……. Regardless of what you think about FATCA, all right-minded people will agree on two things: First, Canada must implement an intergovernmental agreement with the US because without doing so, Canadian banks and other businesses will be placed in the unenviable position of being forced to deal directly with the IRS on its implementation….”…
http://www.moodysgartner.com/tax-predictions-for-2014-according-to-carnac-the-magnificent/
I am obviously not ‘rightminded’, and neither are the professionals and academics who assert that FATCA is bad for Canada, and bad for Canadians – unless you’re a banker, or a compliance professional with a vested interest and a Homelander at heart.
@Schubert
Thanks for all your help regarding the video.
@Neill
Truly horrifying. Is your atty actually advising you to pay this extra $31k? I hope not.
@badger
I am surprised at these remarks. Perhaps I lost track but I seem to recall Roy Berg as somewhat sympathetic to our concerns. Now this (in addition to some other strange comments I have heard about which surprised me). “Rightminded?” Doh!
I keep hearing about certain lawyers here waiting until something happens to someone here before filing actions. So??????? I’ll probably be censored for even mentioning it 🙁
Joe Arvay is not the only lawyer in Canada that can bring actions. Neil…..just kiss the USA good bye and spend your days at Tim Hortons in Yellow Belly Moose NWT and hope, like the Nazis that froze to death invading Russia in the winter, IRS agents and their brown shirted yellow striped pants clowns will also freeze.
@nobledreamer,
See also:
“……As the OECD’s common reporting standards are adopted by member countries in the next few years, Canada’s reluctance to adopt standard entity classifications threatens its credibility as a country committed to the global attack on tax evasion.
We can’t go back: FATCA has changed the global banking and business and tax landscape and more changes will follow.”
from http://www.step.org/leaked-guidance-notes-threaten-invalidate-canada%E2%80%99s-fatca-iga
and,
“…All right-minded
people will agree that life under the IGA is better than
life under FATCA….”… http://www.moodysgartner.com/downloads/tax-analysts-fatca-leaked-and-buried.pdf
and,
“…Some may take pride in what appears to be a case of Canada standing up to its more powerful neighbour. “There’s a perception among Canadians that this is a good thing,” says Berg. “IRS is trying to force [FATCA] down our throats and people are glad CRA and Finance are standing up to them. That is absolutely wrong……..””
from http://www.advisor.ca/tax/tax-news/feds-bury-fatca-law-in-budget-bill-148502
Roy is NOT your friend in this fight. He has gone to the “dark side”! He is for capitulation and U.S. Nationality dominance over Canadian citizenship. End of story. You are supposed to be grateful for the IGA, and about time you whiners (I joke) all just bend over and take it! He thinks that is realpolitik.
@Just me says
His views may reflect realpolitik, but realpolitik has given short shrift to justice from the beginning. The ancient Greek Thucydides said: “right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” Not a position I would hope that a lawyer would support..
@badger
The big difference between the OECD standard and FATCA is CBT. Even so, I have been reading the economic arguments for CBT (which was mainly about poorer countries facing a brain drain in the 1970s and 1980s ) and U.S. practice differs greatly from what even pro-CBT economists would consider the just or even rational taxation of emigrants, especially such features of U.S. CBT as taxing people who have never resided in the U.S., as well as the legal permanent resident problem.
@CheersBigEars
Certainly people who are already affected by things like OVDI could made a case if a lawyer found grounds. What the IRS is doing to Neill is horrible. Unfortunately, greencard holders are in a weak position.. A U.S. citizen would be better placed.
@US Person Foreigner
Is being in the U.S. for less than eight years on a greencard a problem, as long as the residence is properly ended? ..
@Neill, why didn’t you opt out? Were the balances and taxes owed high enough that an opt out would not necessary have been the best decision?