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Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 274 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with links to further information and the required Dept of State forms.
Reports are updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
2013.02.12. As of today, this discussion now continues at Part 2. Please click here to go to Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 2.
That will be encouraging to some folks here — 1973. Wish I were one of them. It’s good to see the US is savings $$ by using one envelope for Mr. and Mrs. and that they had a proper return address so you pretty well knew what you were signing for. Again, sincere congratulations (Mr. and Mrs.) John Gahagan.
What is the actual date of on your CLN and I will change the database to reflect. Thanks.
@ johnnb
Congrats on your CLN.
You may be interested to learn that late last summer the Halifax Consulate told an immigration lawyer that “they didn’t do relinquishments in Halifax” The lawyer responded by telling Halifax that they had to do relinquishments and if they didn’t know how to do it, the lawyer would teach them.
I guess Halifax learned.
So, I’m glad everything worked out for you and your wife.
Super! Congratulations to you both, John and Mrs!
Thanks for sharing your story with us in January … I remember you were one of the very first people to do so, and, also being a long-ago relinquisher, I found it very useful and reassuring to know how things should go.
Great news for you and your wife, John! Congratulations and Happy Birthday to you!
@ hazy2 — Fascinating little tidbit about the Halifax consulate. 🙂
@johnnb
Congratulations, John to both you and your wife. It must be a wonderful feeling.
I know you have no plans to file any forms with IRS and there should be no reason you need to as you have been out of their system for almost four decades.
Congratulations and Happy Birthday John! I’ll join you in full name, once mine comes.
@all Thank you for your very kind words – and birthday wishes. I’ve been walking on air all day.
@Calgary411 The actual date is 29 November 1973
@Hazy2 I owe that lawyer a great big thank you. When we went in January it was hassle free. He did a great job of paving the way.
@Nobledreamer I hope yours comes soon. It’s a wonderful feeling.
*@John, Congratulation, How Lucky You Are!!
How long does it take for the consulate to get back to you? I’m not sure if I should email them again. (My instructions told me to email them to book an appointment and that I can’t do it any other way) But there has been no further instruction for 1 month…. =(
*Kat, since I don’t know which consulate you are dealing with, I can only tell you what the situation is in Toronto. Here I had to book my appointment through the consulate’s web site, NOT by email. Maybe it’s the same where you are. Good luck!
Follow-up: I just checked the Toronto consulate web site and found that all Notarial and Other Services appointments (the kind I had for relinquishment) are booked up for July and August, and NONE are yet available for September and after! So maybe they will be changing things again.
Also, it may be different if you have to renounce rather than relinquish. You may have to make that kind of appointment by email or as a Passport Services appointment.
REPORT ON SECOND APPOINTMENT AT VANCOUVER CONSULATE
Chronology:
March, 2012 – First appointment at Consulate (see earlier report on this)
May, 2012 – I sent an email to the Consulate stating that I had been advised my second appointment would be in about two months and I would appreciate hearing from them regarding this appointment. No response.
June, 2012 – Received letter (via Canada Post) regarding my second appointment stating that after I had gathered all the material required (noted in the letter) I should email the Consulate regarding making second appointment. I sent an email that same day and three weeks later received a phone call to set up an appointment for about a month later in July.
July, 2012 – Six days prior to second appointment date I received an email from the ACS Dept. of the Consulate saying “Thank you for making an appointment with us for passport services.” It then provided instructions about what to bring and do for obtaining a passport or renewing a passport. I was bewildered by this and was afraid that they had scheduled me by mistake for passport renewal rather than my renunciation appointment. So I called the Consulate number expecting to get a recorded message, but instead a man answered the phone immediately – it was a pleasant shock that a real person was on the line. He looked at his calendar and confirmed that I was scheduled for my renunciation appointment, then chuckled and said not to worry as this email is sent routinely to people who have booked appointments for renouncing. Just a heads up for anyone who gets this email and panics, thinking they’re planning to renew your passport rather than take it from you.
July, 2012 – The long-awaited Second Appointment: Four months after my first appointment I finally had my big day. Outside the Vancouver Consulate there is now a space with about 50 little lock boxes for people to put small items in. However, if they are full you are out of luck so it’s probably still a good idea to avoid taking cell phones, etc., with you.
The procedure began with a very friendly staffer showing me all the documents she had prepared on the computer (based on the forms and personal statement I had taken in to my first meeting) and she had me proofread all of them to make sure they were accurate. She then went through the routine of making sure that I really wanted to do this thing and said that if I had any doubts I could take my time and come back another time. I assured her that I was certain of my decision to renounce and we proceeded. After compiling the forms I had proofread and the documents I had been told to bring this time (US passport, Canadian passport, Canadian citizenship card, Canadian certificate which shows date of naturalization, and prepaid Xpress Post envelope) she sent me to the ACS waiting room to wait to be called for my interview with the Vice consul. I waited there for about 20 minutes. The vice consul discussed the ramifications of what I was doing and then sent me to another window to make my $450 payment. I received a receipt with the words “Renunciation of USC” printed on it. It also says “All transactions final – No refunds.”
I then returned to the Vice Consul’s window and she had me sign in duplicate all the forms (Form 4079 – Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship, Form 4080 – Oath/Affirmation of Renunciation of Nationality of United States, and Form 4081 – Statement of Understanding concerning the Consequences and Ramifications of Relinquishment of Renunciation of U.S. citizenship). Then I read aloud the Oath of Renunciation before the VC. She stated that this won’t be official until the State Department “approves” my application but when it is approved the CLN will be dated on the date of my signing the forms (July, 2012).
The VC then sent me to the first woman I had dealt with, who went through all the papers to make sure all documents were properly signed and sealed. She told me that I should take care to keep my payment receipt which is my only proof of renunciation at this time and also the delivery confirmation slip for the Xpress Post envelope (which she took off the address label and gave me) which they will send to me eventually with enclosures consisting of my official CLN, invalidated US passport and copies of all the documents I signed.
She said it could take up to at least a year to receive my CLN. Apparently there is a long list of people relinquishing/renouncing at the Vancouver Consulate. When I asked about the varying lengths of time it takes to get this done at different consulates she indicated that when they go to Washington for approval they are processed in the order they are received. I mentioned that people at some consulates seem to be receiving theirs much sooner than at other consulates. I felt she understood the frustration of those waiting but it is out of the hands of the consulate once it leaves there.
Wow! It’s done – that part anyway. I feel so good about having this finished and would like to extend my congratulations to all others who have reported making it this far in this process. Also, my thanks to all of you Brockers who have encouraged, enlightened and empathized with me and others on this journey. While I have a great sense of relief about having completed my journey thus far, I know that another chapter awaits and I won’t feel this saga is truly and completely over until I have said adieu to the IRS.
Of course, I’ll let you know as soon as my CLN arrives in that Xpress Post envelope.
Congratulations on finishing your renunciation, Ladybug! Glad to hear from what you and others report that everyone at Vancouver is friendly to deal with, but what a shame it takes so long to get that second appointment or that they just don’t cut it down to one appt if your mind is made up, as yours was.
Seeing as Calgary and Halifax CLNs have recently been arriving relatively quickly (compared to a year, that is), hopefully that’s a sign that Washington really is cleaning up the Canadian backlog and you’ll get yours sooner, too.
Thanks for your detailed report! I’ll add it to the directory tonight.
Just thought I’d pass this on. A friend of mine who is the poster child for paranoia has never posted to Isaac Brock. He made an appointment in Halifax for relinquishment two days after mine – he wanted to see if they were going to drag me away kicking and screaming never to be seen again. Since they treated me well he kept his appointment on Jan 25 this year. He got his CLN today from Halifax and it is dated back to Oct 1967. Not sure if it should be added to the stats as he doesn’t post here but it is one more positive outcome. He is happy.
@johnnb,
I am going to post it. Another important win that will buoy up those with similar circumstances.
I’ll bet he’s very happy — and we’re all happy for him!!
@ladybug,
Thanks for reporting your second appointment and the detail for your experience at the Vancouver US Consulate. Also, we appreciate your asking about the differences in wait time for CLN’s. Hope yours will be much sooner than the scripted timing they gave you.
Huge congratulations to you!!!!
*On July 9, 2012 I finally had my 2nd appt. at the Vancouver US Consulate. The time between my 1st and 2nd appt. was 5 months! When I arrived for my 2nd appt. they had me scheduled for a new passport appt. LOL!!! I said I was there to give their passport back to them and that I was there to renounce. That meant waiting another hour of so. The process went smoothly once started and when I was finally done and being escorted down in the elevator by a US consulate person I couldn’t help it and let out a yelp of glee and said, Yay! I’m free! I’m finally free!”. The US consulate person looked a little bemused and so we just smiled at one another. 100% Canadian and proud of it!
@redandmad
Congratulations. I envy you.
@redandmad, 100% Canadian and proud of it,
Sincere congratulations. Can I add to the Renounce and Relinquish database: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/?
If so can you provide:
First Contact Date: Year/Month
First Appointment Date: Year/Month
Second Appointment Date: 2012.07
Then when you do get that important document, CLN Date (which should be the date of your second appointment and renunciation oath)
As they say in Calgary, Yahoo!
… and, oh yeah, I envy you too.
*Congrats Ladybug!
Questions for the those who have done a Calgary renunciation… I am filling out my form for my renunciation in Calgary (I want to make sure they know I am not coming back for a 2nd appointment to do paperwork… I want out now!). I have a questions on DS-4079, questions 16 and 18. Q16 asks… “Have you renounced your U.S. nationality at a Consulate?” Given that I am doing that on my appointment, should I fill that out now? Furthermore, on Q18 it asks if I performed acts voluntary and did I do so with an attempt to reqlinquish. My question is what “acts” are they referring to (the renunciation I am performing?) and I assumed that since I am renouncing, I did not do my oath (the “act”) of renunciation in an attempt to relinquish, but instead to renounce. This might be some insignificanty legalise, but legalise can doom things .
I’m trying the Vancouver consulate, also got my letter in June but I guess I have to wait for a phone call =/
@all – Thanks for the congrats. I agree with redandmad that it feels might fine to be 100% Canadian. I’m a lumberjack and that’s okay!
@redandmad – In my post not far above yours I mentioned receiving an email from the consulate thanking me for my appointment for passport services. After reading about your experience, I don’t feel like I was being so paranoid when I phoned the consulate to say I’m renouncing, not renewing my passport. 🙂
@newb – Although I had to have two appointments I filled out the 4079 form for my first appointment, and for #16 I put in the name of the consulate city and then added – my appearance here today. (I didn’t put the date in because I knew the official date would be my second appointment. Q18 refers to questions 8-16 (see Q17); this would include your answer to #16 about renouncing at a U.S. Consulate.
@Kat – I received my phone call three weeks after sending the email. Hope your call comes soon.
@RedandMad, Congratulations! And, wow!–wish I’d been there on the escalator, too – you sure brought a smile to my face, just reading this! – I know the feeling!
(In my case, I practically bounced down the street from the consulate to the Tim Horton’s where my husband was waiting, and as soon as I saw him, involuntarily shrieked, “It’s over!” It’s over!” — cause those months sure were a traumatic nightmare)
The bizarreness of them scheduling a passport renewal appt is definitely a LOL. And, boy, we Brockers can sure use smiles and laughter!
It’s good that you’ve wrapped things up and can get on with your life. Thanks very much for sharing the story of your consulate visit. I put it in the Consulate Report Directory as per your post of 6.33 pm yesterday. If at any time you wish to edit or delete it, of course just let me know.
@ Hijacked, whilst browsing today, I noticed that no one has replied to your comment of June 19th. I think that’s probably because nobody has been asked very much verbally when formalising their relinquishment.
“Other than the questions on 4079, were there any other particular questions asked when people went to relinquish – e.g. citizenship or birth place of your parents”
I’m not sure to what extent the citizenship or birth place of one’s parents would be considered as a motivating factor in one’s intent to relinquishUS citizenship. Probably irrelevant in most cases, eg if the parents are USCs. Though if they’re Canadian (I think you said yours are), it would show a tie that could have influenced one’s decision/intent to become solely Canadian. But I think “intent” mainly comes down to one’s post-relinquishment conduct illustrating intent (just my opinion).
As for there not being many questions verbally asked at a relinquishment interview, your answers on the 4079, which the vice consul or consul reads before meeting you, should give a pretty clear picture that your relinquishment was done voluntarily and intentionally and that your post-relinquishment conduct has been consistent with having relinquished. And you can provide a statement or affidavit, to elaborate on the 4079 answers and/or provide additional information. [I’m not sure that such statement is strictly required but seems to be a good idea; and one Brocker reported that a consulate staffer atHalifax suggested he write one up there on the spot, which he did.]
Perhaps the consular official might ask you to clarify something if it’s not clear, but for the most part, these documents seem to speak for themselves. It seems, from my own experience and reading the consulate visit reports of others relinquishers, that meeting with the vice consul or consul is usually about 10 or 15 minutes, which includes signing documents.
I made a phone call this week (+41 31 357 7011 during routine telephone call hours from 2-4 PM) to US Consulate in Bern, Switzerland. After going through the touch-tone options I reached ACS and asked for renunciation information. Was forwarded to a female who spoke Swiss German.
Estimated wait for appointment: 1 month. CLN 2-3 months. They confirm that they have increased their staff handling renunciations from 1 to 3, and that an attestation may be provided on the day of renunciation but not a certified copy of the renunciation forms.
They did ask me where I lived (Fribourg) but I forgot to ask them if they were accepting renunciations from people resident in neighboring countries. Sorry.
They did say that they have hundreds of applications being processed, where before there were only a handful a month.
Thanks, Sophie,