If you arrive here through an old link, please click here for the Current Thread.
Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 274 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with links to further information and the required Dept of State forms.
Reports are updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
2013.02.12. As of today, this discussion now continues at Part 2. Please click here to go to Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 2.
Thanks Petros and johnb. I’ve got the pdf files tucked away now. It will be interesting to see if these forms are the same in a year or so.
These are the forms for Renunciation:
4079. Request for determination of loss of citizenship. Important for relinquishments, is not strictly required for renunciations (according to the DOS procedure manual) but it seems most consulates ask for it. Definitely you’d want to fill it out in advance as it’s 4 pages.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81606.pdf
4081. Statement of understanding of consequences.
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81609.pdf
The forms for Relinquishment are:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/97025.pdf
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81607.pdf
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/81609.pdf
*I relinquished but the consulate had me fill in all the forms
4079, 4080, 4081 and 4082 (witness form). I had the 4079 done ahead of time.
*Thanks for the form links
*@all
Other than the questions on 4079, were there any other particular questions asked when people went to relinquish – e.g. citizenship or birth place of your parents. Trying to be as prepared as possible.
Thanks everyone.
*At the Calgary consulate, do you get to keep a copy of your renunciation (signed by the consular officials) so you can at least have something in your back pocket while the CLN is being processed?
When I made my renunciation appointment they had me email them my personal info (name, address, place of birth, etc.) ahead of time and they had all the forms filled out for me when I got there. All they needed were my signatures.
@ NewB
Unfortunately, they’re not giving people a copy of the renunciation document. I’mWashington told them to stop doing it, but I can’t remember my source for that.
not aware of any consulates that are giving copies at this time. One consulate in Canada used to, but they stopped about six months ago. I heard that
However, someone who renounced atCalgary this spring posted that they got a receipt for the $450, which indicated that the payment was a renunciation fee. I can’t remember which thread they posted on, but it’s somewhere on the site.
@Newb: In your situation, you certainly are on the US radar and your best option may be to renounce.
My sense is that you are a young man at the beginning of your life and
career. That is probably a good time to renounce–as you say, before
you have assets, a spouse, a home and children.
However,there may be a huge caveat. I don’t want to add any more anxiety, but are you aware all US male citizens between the ages of 18 and 25 are required to register for the selective service? Although there is not currently a draft, the penalty for not doing so is up to $250,000 fine and up to five years in prison. I have no idea how strictly US enforces this, especially for men living outside US, but that is the requirement.
I have no idea how the Consulate and DOS would handle
this at this time. I know there are others who have some experience with that from the Vietnam era, but I have no idea how it is being
treated today.
Does anyone else have any knowledge of this? Don, is that anything you have considered?
Do we know if Consulates are asking young men about this?
@Blaze
I was not asked about Selective Service at my 1st interview. I do have to admit though that I wasn’t personally worried about it since I am registered with it at my parents’ address (current), and that they did so once I turned 18. I would be interested to hear from any others in the 18-25 age range if they were asked about it at the interview. Is there a penalty for registering late? If not, maybe anyone who is considering renouncing should just register for it first and then renounce to be sure. I think it can be done online (you can change your address online at least if already registered).
I will be renouncing this week, so I will post if I am given a receipt of some sorts after my appointment.
@Blaze
I did register for Selective Service when I was 18… last time I renewed my now expired passport. I am over 25 now, so I am in the cleared on that. One less tie to Uncle Sam.
@Don, Newb: Great news from both of you. Not great news that you had to register, but great that it is one less hassle for you in getting on with your lives.
@newb,
Unfortunately, No. It appears they have not done that for anyone reporting their Calgary Consulate experience, even when they’ve specifically asked.
*The time between contacting the consulate and the first, and hopefully only, visit is approximately 2 months. Is that time period needed because they are backlogged, because they want me to think about what I am doing, or because they need time to get all the needed background (i.e., my tax compliance) they have on me? They asked for very little information on the questionnaire but I am thinking they know almost everything about me they want to know, including my favourite gum.
The only thing resembling a real-world consequence is that you can be
denied student loans for failing to register. This actually happened to
a US/Can dual citizen colleague of mine, which made him cranky since he
wasn’t aware of the whole concept of draft registration, having lived
his whole life up to that point in Canada, but had no objection to it.
He was 26, so no comebacks.
I never registered either, out of ignorance – I was 22 or so when I
got a passport at the US consulate in Toronto, and they never mentioned
it. I wouldn’t have minded either – I was invloved with the Canadian
military at the time. You’d think it would be a useful consular thing to
point out to a draft-age male who has obviously lived his whole life
abroad, but never mind.
Let us not forget that the highest ranking US government official in Canada, Ambassador Jacobson had this to say about the IRS late last year. “My message on this one is to sit tight. We are not unreasonable. We are not unsympathetic. We are not irresponsible.” Clearly Ambassador Jacobson has told us DO NOT file taxes, we are to “sit tight” and wait for further instructions! Note that Ambassador Jacobson had nothing to say about renunciation or relinquishment, that clearly is still acceptable.
@newb,
Hopefully, they need the two months time because they are backlogged and give appointments for relinquishments and renunciations only one or two days per week. I don’t think the Consul has time to do extensive research on each of us, but who knows? I think most of us think about this possibility and as Schubert has pointed out, “Just because you’re not paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.”
@newb, I also think the wait time is due to a backlog. As far as tax compliance goes, I don’t think they care one little bit, it’s not their department.
*newb – when I renounced in Calgary I only took in that little questionnaire they sent me by email. They had the forms filled out – it was only one or two but honestly do not remember. And I did ask about getting a copy of the forms but was told no and as someone else said, another Consulate that did that previously is no longer handing out copies.
I had my first appointment at the Vancouver consulate today and I wanted to share some thoughts. The consulate report directory did a good job of describing the process so I wont go into any repetitive detail but there are a few things that I want to mention.
There seems to be a security policy change.
The person who arrived with a big backpack was told that they could not bring it in and was directed to the coffee shop across the street where it would be held for a fee. However the person with a cell phone was let through. It appears that there might be a locker/storage for small items. I was distracted and did not see what happened to the aforementioned cell phone but I did see someone come from around the building (ie the exit) with a small numbered red tag and exchange it with security for something. I also saw a couple of people inside with the red tags so it MIGHT be possible to check small items.
When I was inside the person who was behind me in line sat down next to me in the waiting area and dropped a piece of paper that had isaacbrocksociety.ca written boldly across the top. We had a good conversation about why we were there and what we were expecting out of the process. (If you are reading this send me an email and let me know how it turned out for you, my email address is on my card).
I found it odd to be sitting in the waiting room listening to people applying for visitors visas (and some failing), while I was trying to get rid of my citizenship.
The one suprise I had in the interview is that I was told that I could have the second interview a just a few days after I sent in the response to the 11 question letter. The response was sent by overnight mail and I will let everyone know what happens.
Perhaps the reason for the short waiting period is that I, in 8854 speak, fall in the category of “Certain dual-citizens”. That means I was born with dual citizenship and I have been a Canadian all my life. I moved here with my parents almost 40 years ago and have absolutely no US ties other than citizenship.
Or maybe there is a policy change. Time will tell.
@Just a Canadian
Welcome to Isaac Brock Society. Your name ‘hits home’ as I feel like “Just a Canadian” and I know there are many more on this site, who for years and years have felt like “Just a Canadian”.
I assume since you were born with dual citizenship you will be renouncing rather than filing for a CLN based on relinquishment. You said: the consulate informed you that you could have the 2nd appointment ‘in a few days after sending a response to the 11 question letter’. I have not heard about an 11 question letter. What do you refer to?
@tiger
The 11 question letter has been referred to on this site in a different thread, I cannot find it right now. It may have been referred to by a different name
They gave me a package that consisted of a cover letter with 11 items, some are questions and some are requests for documents, as well as forms DS 4079 and DS 4081 and a few informational documents.
I left the letter at work but I will paraphrase.
1) Provide copies of US passports, NEXUS cards etc.
2) If foreign born it asks for copies of consular report of birth and similar.
3) Provide copies of foreign passports
4) Provide copies of the filled out forms attached.
5) Last US address
6) Current phone/email
7) US SSN
a) Have you sponsored any children for US Citizenship.
b) Have you sponsored anybody for a Visa.
c) Have you filed US Taxes, for what period and what forms.
d) What documents do you use when traveling in the US.
And yes, the questions are numbered 1 to 7 and then a to d.
Because I am not naturalized, I never took the oath of citizenship so I cannot relinquish and I must renounce.
After my second appointment I will refer to myself as Only a Canadian rather than Just a Canadian.
@Just a Canadian,
Congratulations and thanks for reporting on your first appointment with the Vancouver US Consulate. We’ll look forward to an update on the rest of your process there. We appreciate comments on the ’11 question letter’. And, the question ‘Is this for ‘certain’ Accidental Americans?’ I’m glad you met and conversed with a fellow Brocker there (at least two of you there in one day — my, oh my.)
I am taking the liberty of posting your experience on the Relinquish & Renounce database at http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/03/14/draft-pdf-compilation-of-relinquishment-and-renunciation-data-as-reported-on-isaac-brock/ (How long was it from your first contact to your first appointment?)
@Calgary411
I made the appointment on Friday via the on line appointment system for Tuesday. There were actually a lot of available appointments during the week at that time.
There are no longer any appointment available for this week, only a few left for next week, and none in the first week in July. So I hope they process it quickly otherwise I will have to wait until the second week in July.
Just & tiger –
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/02/20/united-states-consulate-in-vancouver-procedures-for-renunciation-of-citizenship/