If you arrive here through an old link, please click here for the Current Thread.
Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 274 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with links to further information and the required Dept of State forms.
Reports are updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
2013.02.12. As of today, this discussion now continues at Part 2. Please click here to go to Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 2.
Congratulations Jer33:3, really happy to hear that your CLN has arrived! It sounds really difficult, getting close to impossible, to live in Switzerland without one. Thanks again for contributing your report to the directory.
Hi Saddened,
That’s great that your son has had his renunciation meeting! Thanks very much to you and him for sharing his story, which I’ll add to the directory tomorrow. Too bad he had to wait so long in the waiting room – but I am glad that apart from that everything went really well. It’s good to know, too, thatToronto has switched now to doing renunciations in only one visit. Hope you guys are having a great weekend – bet you are 🙂
Hi Just a Canadian and Mrs. Arrow,
Great to hear that you have your CLNs now! Mine arrived on a Saturday too – perfect night for a celebration!
Tiger, Calgary411, Em, Pacifica777, Just Me, Petros, — and everyone else who participates on this site. You have all been of immense help in more ways that you can imagine. I still have a couple of articles up my sleeve; just need to flesh them out a bit more and probably that won’t happen now until the new year.
I hope that FATCA conference in Toronto was a success.
DW
Jer33.3, Congratulations!!
I’m glad you have now received your CLN and that your Bern process proved simple — thank goodness it is that way for those in Switzerland. I didn’t know that 20 years of residency was required before being able to apply for Swiss citizenship, given all the other problems innocent USPs there face. Not all of the US consulates in Canada provide a bad experience for renunciation, just a couple, which is a couple too many as each consulate in Canada or elsewhere in the world should have the same procedures in place. Thanks for sharing your experience with us and being part of the figures and the stories we have compiled to help others.
We’ll look forward to your articles in the new year, Arrow.
I, too, am wondering how things went in Toronto. I so hope the numbers for turnout were good, some people made aware and that similar sessions can take place in other locations if Toronto’s went well. I’m out for awhile but hope we have some news when I’m back.
*Just a Canadian, Mrs. Arrow, Jer33:3
Congratulations to all on those overdue CLN’s. I’m glad to see something finally happening in Vancouver. Your turn next, Tiger.
Arrow, let us know if the IRS does contact you. If my CLN ever shows up it should be backdated into late 60’s, but I still live in fear being harassed for the rest of my life.
@ SwissPinoy & Jer33.3
I just want to add my congratulations to
both of you too. It must be such a relief to have that CLN in hand.
@All, thanks everyone and congratulations to everyone else who got their CLN!
Yes, getting a CLN is a great relief. I’ve been reading way to many FBAR, FATCA and other threats, fines and fees, and it is thus now a relief to know that such will be a thing of the past. It is odd that I used to be an American for job possibilities, while now I’m not an American for job possibilities. Overall, what this means for me is that life goes on as normal with fewer worries and distractions. 🙂
*My congratulations to SwissPinoy on your CLN. Ours must have been processed in the same batch. I must say it was a relief to finally receive it, but at the same time it is sad. So sad that it has to come to something this drastic. But receiving it on the same day that those horrible killings happened in Connecticut made feel more confident in my criticisms of the policies of the United States. Love it or leave it. Well, I am glad it is official that I could “leave it”. I was advised by a US Tax Attorney living in the town where I live. I was told that renunciation and tax matters are separate and handled separately by two different departments. I am interested to see if I receive the final tax forms in the mail. While I do have some business in the US, I can file as a Non-Resident Alien and these forms are in plain, simple english and not that martian dialect that ex-pats are used to. Travel to the US is not difficult as a Swiss, even though the lines are longer, they process visitors quickly and with a smile. I am not sure if I need to travel with my cancelled US Passport, since that is the only proof that I am not a Citizen (ESTA states I was born in US. As a US Citizen, it is illegal to enter the US on any other passport.)
I still do not understand why many Embassies insist on two interviews. For those of you who are contemplating taking the step or who have fears of how you will be treated, remember that you are a citizen of another country as well, and as a citizen of that second country, that country will protect you (another tip I received from a tax attorney). As an American, it is your right to give up your US Citizenship if you desire and the US can not bully you for your decision. The Consulate who handles your case has no business asking you about your IRS commitments. Their main concern should be if a) you hold citizenship in another country, since no person should be without a country. b) your reason for renouncing should not be for tax evasion. The best and simplest reason is that you have no real ties to the US and your life is and has been in the country you currently live. Remember, it is not easy for the person who conducts your renunciation. These people do many every day and it saddens them to have to do this (at least that was my experience in Bern).
Thank you to the Isaac Brock Society for all your help. If it wasn’t for this group, I never would have had the information and the courage (and anger) to finally make this step.
@Jer33.3 Congratulations on your renunciation. Will you have any back FATCA/FBAR double taxation and exit tax requirements to deal with? Remember your troubles are not neccesarily over.
*FATCA is not my problem anymore and I don’t earn enough money to have to pay an exit tax. I will just wait and see what comes my way. That is what I was advised to do. Yes, my trouble may not be over, but at least they can not touch my future earnings.
@Jer33.3,
Thanks for highlighting:
It is sad that the people who receive our relinquishments and renunciations are saddened, but it is their job to do so with respect for every person who makes that appointment for relinquishment or renunciation. It is sad commentary all around that it has come to this. We are fighting for our futures and those of our families.
Hello Isaac Brock. This is my first post although I’ve been a lurker for about a year. Not even sure if I’m doing all this correctly or posting in the right place. I’m sure one the moderators will happily straighten me out!
On December 14th I became a Canadian after living here for forty years. That afternoon I emailed the Vancouver Consulate informing them I had committed an expatriating act with the intent of losing US citizenship and asked how I should go about returning my US passport and apply for a CLN.
On Monday morning there was a reply in my inbox explaining that they were experiencing a wave of similar requests and could not tell me when I could expect to be granted an appointment for my “renunciation”. They also said that this business could not be done at the first appointment. They obviously haven’t gotten the memo from D.C.
After reading about the experiences of numerous others at the hands of the Vancouver Consulate, I’m not surprised, but I had to try. I will now have to decide whether to press them or simply write off Vancouver and go with Calgary.
maz57,
Welcome to Isaac Brock. You have obviously been doing your homework – you knew that if you became a Canadian with the ‘intent’ of losing US citizenship, you are allowed to ‘relinquish’. Good for you for knowing what to do.
Being one of those ‘involved’ with the Vancouver consulate (still waiting for a 2nd appointment, difficulties with the 1st appointment and ‘correct’ documentation), I can not emphasize enough – go through another consulate. Yes, perhaps the consulate here will at some time get ‘their house in order’, but why wait for that to happen. Calgary has shown they do relinquishments in one appointment, and they offer many appointments and most important – they treat people with respect.
@maz57 –
Congratulations. What was the timeline on your citizenship application?
Welcome, Maz,
CLN applications based on relinquishment should be done in only one visit, of course. Obviously the person has already performed the expatriating act, so what’s there to reflect about. However, both Vancouver andOttawa require two visits for it (they’re the only two consulates in the world I’m aware of that do that, though of course I’m not familiar with every consulate).
In November, as you may have read here, all consulates inCanada were supposed to be doing all expatriations in one visits, both relinquishments and renunciations, if they were not already doing so. This is a trend we’ve been seing around the world. However, Vancouver and Ottawa appear to be dragging their feet.
As forVancouver , they are currently booked until June and, as you received in your e-mail, not making any new bookings at this time. One obvious solution to dealing with their “wave of similar requests” would be to do things in one visit. Vancouver is certainly not alone in experiencing this “wave of similar requests” of CLN applications, but almost all of the other consulates have managed to keep up pretty well with demand — except Vancouver and Ottawa (the latter says they’re doing one appointment per week, but we’ve long advised people not to go there for other reasons anyway).
Hopefully,Vancouver will have some positive movement to report early in the new year. However, they seem to be miring themselves in creating extra work for themselves (eg the two visits) and to date, given the amount of staff they have, in terms of staff allocation they appear to consider expatriation a very low priority – which is not the case at most other consulates.
Until we receive word thatVancouver
@maz57,
I’m glad you were able to learn here to effectively have your expatriating act of taking Canadian citizenship be the reason for your relinquishment of US citizenship. I’m also happy you gave the US Vancouver Consulate a try and now can give a report that they are, as of Monday, still maintaining the two-appointment policy and continue with a time lag before even being able to give you a first appointment date.
It is a shame that things are different there than other Canadian consulates, that everyone is not afforded the same relinquishment or renunciation experience throughout Canada (and the world for that matter). My husband and I had appointments in Calgary mid-November with one appointment, for renunciation rather than relinquishment. I corresponded with the Calgary Consulate by email, Calgary-ACS@state.gov. For renunciation, they sent a questionnaire to be filled out and emailed or faxed back. All of our paperwork was prepared and ready to sign on the day of our appointments. Very efficient.
Perhaps if you email Calgary, from their answer you can get a feel of how long it will take for an appointment there and if one only will be required, especially since you will have the time and expense of travelling a distance. Our experience in Calgary was efficient and respectful. Saying that and knowing there are no bad experiences reported here for Calgary, there are no guarantees.
Good luck in your next steps. Keep in touch and let us know how it’s going for you.
Hello, Everyone
I just got a call from my brother in Halifax who just received his CLN. He gave me permission to share his experiences with you. A few years ago, he was threatened by a U.S. Border officer at Shannon Airport in Ireland to agree to get a U.S. passport or be detained from boarding his flight to New York City connecting to Halifax. His explanation that he had been a child when he came to Canada and that he was a Canadian citizen with no ties to the United States did not faze the officer. Reluctantly, he applied for and obtained a U.S. passport upon returning to Canada. Consequently, when he handed his completed forms to relinquish his citizenship on October 18, 2012 at the U.S. consulate in Halifax, he also handed over that passport with the explanation of the Shannon incident. The consul apologized to for the “inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour” of the U.S. border officer in Shannon. He said that the possession of a U.S. passport was evidence of his participation in being American. Therefore it would be necessary to pay $450 even though, in my brother’s case, it clearly showed he relinquished his U.S. citizenship when he became a Canadian citizen in December 1968. That being said, the papers were accepted at the first meeting and he was called by the consulate to pick up his CLN less than two months later! The CLN states he relinquished his U.S. citizenship on the date he became a Canadian citizen.
Unlike me, my brother in Halifax neither obtained a SSN nor filed taxes for the past five years. His process to freedom was smooth because I shared with him what I learned from the Issac Brock site and others like it that support U.S born persons. We have another brother who unfortunately fell into the OVDI trap earlier this year and paid dearly for it.
I can’t thank you all enough for the support you are providing every day.
@baird68,
I send my congratulations to your brother. Obviously, the consul in Halifax is a ‘class act’ to apologize for the ‘inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour’ of the border guard at Shannon Airport. Very interesting though that your brother was asked to pay the $450 and told his possession of a U.S. passport indicated he ‘participated in being American’ and yet when the CLN arrived, it clearly showed ‘relinquishment’ in 1968 and not renuciation in 2012. Wonder if he will get the $450 returned to him.
@Baird, I am so happy to hear that your brother’s CLN is marked with the correct date of his expatriation. Truth wins out. Also rather nice of the consul to apologise for the “inappropriate and unacceptable behaviour” of theUS border officer. Consulates like Halifax are a class act. Glad that everything worked out for your brother and he’s got his life back.
Hey Tiger, I just read your comment and realised that we both called Halifax a class act. Great minds think alike. As for the $450, that always brings to mind the CSNY song from 1970, “Find the Cost of Freedom.” Of course, in my wildest dreams I couldn’t have even imagined this surreal US mess in 1970.
@baird68,
Sincere congratulations to your brother in having received his CLN in less than two months for his renunciation of US citizenship, backed to the date he became a Canadian citizen in December of 1968. That is amazing and wonderful. I have already finished his line of the Halifax Consulate report on the Renounce & Relnquish database.
Having said that and being ecstatically happy for your brother, I feel like I’ve been kicked in the gut. My hindsight is indeed now 20-20. Your brother’s story almost could have been mine as I, too, was challenged at the US border and told that the next time I entered the US it was to be with a US passport. Had I been acquainted with this site back then, Duke of Devon, I would not have been intimidated, but I very much was! You all know my long story. Had your brother’s been my story, I would not have spent tens of thousands of dollars of hard-earned savings to come into compliance since 2005. (Of course, besides getting the US passport and filing back US taxes and FBARs, I also did the one other abhorrent thing — voted my one and only time in a US election in 2008.) Gulp, gulp, carry on.
You’re right, tiger and pacifica — Halifax is a class act!
@ All, Thank you for the encouraging words and congrats. It’s been a long slog since I first found out about this can of worms about a year and a half ago. I know you all can appreciate what I’m talking about. IBS has been both my salvation and my inspiration in this journey. I decided early on to get those five years of back 1040’s filed while getting the ball rolling on Canadian citizenship. (I figure I was only 35 years late on my citizenship application!)
@ Broken man, I applied October of 2011, but being 66 at the time (now 67) I was relieved of the language requirement and writing the test. I did have to submit fingerprints. (For those who receive a fingerprint request, I recommend choosing the digital option with a private outfit. That probably saved about a month vs. going down to the local RCMP station and doing the old fashioned ink pad style.) So approximately 14 months total.
@ Calgary and Tiger, Yeah, I knew from this forum that Vancouver was obstructionist, but I figured what the heck I might as well give it a try. If nothing else, I could report back to IBS what the latest (non)service situation was in Vancouver. They didn’t disappoint me. I think I will now mull it over for a day of two. I’m very tempted to reply to their useless response “so what are you saying, I should contact Calgary?”
@maz57,
I think it would be great if you sent another email asking them if you should contact another consulate. It would be good to hear what they might say.
One thought I did have when you posted earlier, at least they answered your email (and quite quickly Dec. 14 – Dec. 17th). They have a history of not bothering to answer emails. Could this be a ‘baby step’?