If you arrive here through an old link, please click here for the Current Thread.
Wonder what really happens at the consulates? Find out in the Isaac Brock Society’s Consulate Report Directory, currently 274 pages of first-hand accounts of renunciation/relinquishment appointments, arranged by consulate location, along with links to further information and the required Dept of State forms.
Reports are updated as consulate visit stories are posted on the website.
You can post here or elsewhere on the site (we’ll keep an eye out for them). Some comments may be excerpted or condensed slightly in the consulate reports. The original posts and comments remain on their threads are not edited.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experiences…and keep ’em coming! It’s a new experience for everyone and your information is really helpful.
To change or delete your report in the Directory, you can post the change as a comment on this thread or e-mail Pacifica@isaacbrocksociety.ca
Click here for the Consulate Report Directory
2013.02.12. As of today, this discussion now continues at Part 2. Please click here to go to Consulate Report Directory (Brockers describe their Consulate Meetings) Part 2.
I’d like to clear up some rumors I have heard everywhere about the federal register and renunciations.
In my personal case, my name appeared on the federal register about 6 months after renunciation.
I have seen rumors that the federal register includes only those that are “covered expatriates”. This is impossible, because, for those expatriating early in a calendar year, the final tax declaration and expat tax form are not due until April or June of the following year. They therefore have no basis on which to determine if you are covered or not. I was not a covered expatriate and I did indeed appear on the federal register 6 months after my expatriation.
So I believe there are a number of reasons why the federal register does not reflect the true number; it is simply a question of lag. Delay to get the embassy interview (5 or 6 months?) then delay to get the CLN (1 year I am hearing?) then delay after the CLN of appearance in the register: 6 months => the federal register reflects the renunciations of the PRIOR year.
Have you heard from renunciants, who have obtained their CLN more than 6 months ago, and who are not on the federal register? Of course, due to the flood the delays are perhaps increasing so maybe we are looking at a 2 year lag now!
Another precision about freaky interview:
The worst, for me, was not the broadcasting of my demise to the entire room (perhaps because I was expecting this for having witnessed it beforehand).
The worst was, the consular employee agreeing to give me copies when I was a Us citizen, and then refusing to give me copies when I was “no longer an American”. It drove home that the US was no more fair, just and honest. Hypocritical, mean and vindictive are adjectives that come to mind. That terrorized me more than anything else that happened during the interview.
@ freeatlast, I was served by a Canadian at the Toronto consulate. She has since retired. She was very helpful, and I was given a copy of all the documents, with the actual seal of the consulate (after the consular officer took my oath, put the consulate seal on the documents, etc.). What you describe is evil.
“the vice consul said “You’re no longer an American” At my meeting I was told that I was still a citizen until the CLN was approved in 6 to 12 months, but once approved I was no longer a citizen back to the date of the meeting. I guess each consulate just makes up their own set of rules.
@TrueNorth; the CLN simply acknowledges that an expatriating event took place. Thus, I informed the consulate April 7, 2011; my CLN was approved on February 29, 2012. But my expatriation took place on 28 February 2011 the day I became a Canadian citizen with the intent of relinquishing my US citizenship. Thus, my CLN clearly states that the date I stopped being a citizen was 28 February 2011. The problem with these idiots at the Consulate is that they don’t know the laws that they are paid to know.
*Wonders never cease! My CLN arrived by registered mail today, and also included were my old U.S. passports; all 4 returned passports were stamped with “person expatriated self” with the date of my Consulate visit in Calgary. It took less than 4 months for this CLN to arrive.
@Cecilia,
CONGRATULATIONS!!! Another Calgary Consulate ‘client’ (renunciant this time) receives CLN in record time for the Canada experience.
Personally, I wish you had one for the daughter you were denied the right to renounce US citizenship on behalf of!
(…and your other daughter?)
@Cecilia,
Is the date on your CLN the date of your Calgary Consulate appointment (or just the old passports stamped such)?
*The date that I took the oath of renunciation at the Consulate is on the CLN. The office seal was affixed on the following day and dated such. In one corner of the page, there is for “department use only” a date filled in (approx. 3
weeksmonths after the renunciation) where it states the certificate of loss of nationality was approved by overseas citizen services. Everything you signed at the U.S. Consulate appears to be given back to you, even your reasons for renouncing, if you submitted them.*CORRRECTION: The CLN was approved by overseas citizen services approx. 3 months after my renunciation at the Consulate (not 3 weeks). Then I received it by registered mail one month later.
*@freeatlast “This is impossible, because, for those expatriating early in a calendar
year, the final tax declaration and expat tax form are not due until
April or June of the following year. “
This brings to mind the only thing I’d change about my own renunciation – if you renounce early in the year, you have to wait most of the year to send in the tax paperwork, whereas most of us would like to get it over with more promptly. Late in the year is much better.
Congratulations, freeatlast and Cecilia! @freeatlast, the treatment you received was outrageous. Thanks for the info about the Federal Register; I look forward to seeing my name there too. 🙂
@broken man
You are absolutely right, renouncing early in the year means you must wait 1 year or more to file your paperwork and that is very annoying. Much better if your situation allows you to renounce at the end of the year.
*I have a question. Here in Norway, if one applies for Norwegian citizenship they generally require proof of loss of citizenship (read CLN) before the Norwegian citizenship will be fully granted. This means that one would have to renounce/relenquish and wait for the CLN before being granted the new Norwegian citizenship. My questions are, 1 will the US consulate hold my US passport during this period ? Would this mean that I would not be stateless but rather unable to travel during this period?
Also are there issuse I need to consider which would hinder them from granting me my request for loss of citizenship?
I hope this is clear.
Thanks for any help.
Waldemar 22
Congratulations, Cecilia. I am so happy for you. Still waiting for Halifax to catch up with Calgary.
@FreeatLast. Thanks for sharing your story. I’m sorry to hear the guy was such a jerk about it. I’m really glad that your CLN came so quickly as it must have been a relief in the sense of closure. I added your story in the directory underEurope (unspecified consulate).
The lack of giving people a copy of their signed form seems to be a problem everywhere.(although unlike this guy, they don’t first pretend that they are going to give it to you.) I was disturbed when I first heard that people didn’t get a copy, I just assumed they did because it’s such an important document. At one timeToronto was giving the person a copy, but they stopped about six months ago. I was told that Washington told them to stop doing it, but I can’t remember my source for that information.
Waldemar: It’s the same here in Denmark. I was “passportless” for about two months: first I had to wait a month for my CLN and then another month for the Danes to get everything processed. The US embassy in Copenhagen was aware of the “statelessness” issue and were helpful in addressing my concerns. You should try contacting your embassy or consulate and ask how they usually handle the situation. Good luck! 🙂
@freeatlast _Congratulations on your CLN and like everyone here, I am horrified at your treatment. As Petros said, Toronto seems to be the only place where people are totally treated in a reasonable and respectful manner.
I think it depends about when one renounces in the year. If you haven’t filed anything but want to get that renounciation done, it does give you a lot of time to deal with the 5 years of filing 1040’s and whatever else plus the much -hated FUBARs. I don’t like the wait but renouncing ASAP was the only way I could get the anxiety to stop.
@Cecilia – Congrats to you on that CLN! I echo Calgary’s comments about your daughter.
@Rødgrød thanks for the answer! So they hold your US passport until a decision is made on your CLN? Wow. Ok good to know.
@Waldemar: Yeah, knowing that I wouldn’t be able to travel was the most stressful part for me. Luckily I didn’t end up having to travel, but it was also a pain not being able to make vacation plans, etc. You could try to get them to give you a copy of your unapproved CLN and see if the Norwegian authorities would accept that. The embassy guy told me that they had done that in the past in Copenhagen (but that’s just hearsay).
@Rødgrød
Thanks, I´ll do that.
@Waldemar22
They DEFINITELY confiscate your passport on the day you take the oath. Cancelled passport comes back in the mail with copies of all the documents you signed at the embassy and the CLN.
Rodgrod says you get a copy of an “unapproved CLN”. If you read my experience above, you will see that I was issued NOTHiNG at the end of my 2nd interview. Not a single piece of paper showing in any way the act I had just undertaken. I was refused to have even a shred of evidence of my renunciation, my passport was confiscated, and I was “no longer an American”. I am sure my interviewer knew full well that this would mean I could not travel, could not open a bank account, etc. until my CLN was returned by snail mail.
I had no need to travel and indeed if I had it would have been a difficult choice to make.
However, as Schubert observed above, a sworn legal affidavit on your part that you have taken the oath, are of sound mind and sprit, understand the consequences, and are not acting under the duress of someone else, could be enough to convince the authorities of your country that you have renounced?
If you have printouts of your embassy interview appointments, if you get the name of the consular authority who took your oath?
It may be worth hiring a local immigration attorney, who could possibly accompany you and swear or notarize the fact that you have renounced (in the case they refuse to give copies). Or perhaps spend 500$ to get a 1 hour interview on the phone with a US immigration lawyer – I know some who do this, payment by visa card – to tell you your rights and if you can insist on having some kind of witness or proof of renunciation at the embassy
Do you have any kind of official like a notary or some kind of legal authority who you could hire to accompany you and witness your renunciation? Perhaps based on a witness statement from this kind of person you could obtain your new nationality.
Just some ideas, kind thoughts to you, hang in there.
@freeatlast and Waldemar22 ,
Did you by chance get a receipt for the $450 fee? That could also be used as part of the proof that you had the renunciation appointment. I can’t think of a word to describe the Consulates’ actions in not giving us a copy of what we have signed (and I cannot wait for them not to give me a copy of what I sign, signifying that I have indeed completed my appointment). (I’ve just done another go-round of my and my husband’s FBARs for 2011 and am a little testy at the moment.)
@Freeatlast
That is absolutely horrifying! I have only had my first interview so far (next is coming up shortly!), and I have to admit that I was the only person in the entire consulate and that the consular officer was extremely friendly and only asked me shortly “why do you want to renounce”, to which I responded with a one sentence answer relating to dual loyalty issues and that was the end of it. The entire meeting took maybe 10 minutes. We’ll see how the actual renunciation ceremony goes, but they said that they try to schedule renunciation appointments when there is nobody else around due to it being a private issue. Very respectful I thought.
Strangely, I think that people who don’t speak English very well might be provided with copies of some documents that they were at the appointment, since they are required to bring two witnesses to attest the fact that the renunciant was there and knew what s/he was doing. Does anyone know if they let you bring in a lawyer to the appointment otherwise?
I would have had no problem at all if an entire room full of people were there to hear me renouncing. I would think on the other hand that it is the Consulate that wouldn’t want others to hear. The US are the ones that should be embarrassed not us.