Sandwich Citizens: Long-Term Expats and Reluctant Renunciants with Continuing Ties to the United States
We’re all familiar with the “sandwich generation”, those with the dual burden of caring for children and ageing parents at the same time. “Sandwich citizens” could be used to describe long-term expats who have lived in ignorance of, and non-compliance with, US extra-territorial tax laws but, at the same time, have felt an identity as Americans. This group could also include those who have been forced against their will to renounce a once precious relationship to the United States during this ongoing tax crisis.
Depending on where they reside, “sandwich citizens” may have been able to fly “under the radar” and, as some have suggested, may not be in the same immediate danger as those who were already aware of US extra-territorial taxation and complied with it on an annual basis. But neither are they completely safe. A man who walks on the savannah may not be in the jaws of the lion but he knows the lion is nearby . . . and he is wise if he walks cautiously.
“Sandwich citizens” find themselves in the midst of a battle between two sets of emotions. On the one hand they love the country of family, friends and fond memories but, on the other, they burn with anger and grief at their betrayal by that same country . . . much like the psychological chaos of divorce.
“Sandwich citizens” need a place to share their pain with like-minded sufferers. Yes, we are all in this together, but sometimes certain commonalities of experience require sharing amongst a specific sub-group. For example, some of the most active people here at the Isaac Brock Society are Australians. They have a specific set of issues, unique to their country, that have been imposed upon them by the United States; so they developed their own thread for focused discussion of their problems. The “Sandwich Citizens” thread is set up in that same spirit. If you are a “sandwich citizen”, or have some sympathy with our plight, welcome to this thread!
— MuzzledNoMore
So, I’m a “sandwich citizen”. Good that I have a proper label! Looks like I’m going first on this thread.
I was a long-term expat who, upon having the dreaded OMG moment, put all the wheels in motion to get compliant in order to reliquish US citizenship and take on a new one. It’s not that I didn’t value my american-ness, I just couldn’t take the stress of having all the reporting and filing obligations hanging over me (or my spouse or family) like a dark cloud all the time. Also, not knowing how US tax legislation might change down the road made me uneasy, so I decided to ditch the blue passport for peace of mind.
I basically went through all the stages of grief when confronting the issue. First there was the initial shock, the “OMG, can this really be true?”, followed by the denial phase of “no, I must be confused about what is going on”. After that, I got mad as hell that I was caught up in the whole disaster. The depression/bargaining stage was actually the most helpful because I was forced to do the cost-benefit-emotional analysis which showed me my solution (=relinquishing). Now that it is all over and done with I have accepted my fate and feel like a giant weight has been removed from my chest, but that doesn’t mean I am without worry.
One of the most nerve-wracking consequences of relinquishment is fear, whether rational or not, of being unable to enter the US. In the current immigration climate, it weighs most heavily on my mind. As an only-child with aging parents, eventually the need will arise for me to care for them in the US. When making the decision to switch citizenships, I thought it would be easier to deal with obtaining a visa, if and when the situation arose, than the constant worry of CBT/FATCA/FBAR and retirement-planning obstacles. I’m not so sure anymore. Although the cases of people being turned away are rare, the instances of CBP harassing people seem to be increasing. The last time I entered the US as a citizen, in 2016, I encountered bullying behaviour, so I don’t think my concern is unjustified.
@Petlover
I can empathize with your situation. I renounced and have relatives in the US. My very elderly mother is in poor health and lives in a residence in California. Fortunately, I’ve been able to make trips to the US to see her with no problem. However, it’s always on my mind that this could change. You mentioned needing a visa so I assume you are not from Canada like me.
The decision to renounce was made on the basis of what was best for me. With lingering US citizenship, it would not be possible for me to live in peace. My retirement would have been an IRS nightmare. Also it would have been more worrisome to travel to the US, from my point of view, without resolving my tax situation.
It’s a very complicated issue but I think if we take care of ourselves we are better able to take care of others in our lives. And we certainly can’t control what goes on in the USA, especially not now. Good luck.
@PatCanadian
Regarding trips to the USA from Canada, I can say that my experience has been simiIar. I am a Canadian citizen, resident in Canada, living with a spouse who is a Non (US) Resident Alien spouse. I renounced US citizenship 2 years ago. My experience since then has been that entering the US for a visit is easier than before as it generates fewer questions and less bullying and suspicion on the part of the US Customs & Immigration officials. It may help that I don’t have a US birthplace on my passport and that we are not non-white. I say the latter because I have witnessed appallingly rude and aggressive treatment of non-white visitors by US officials in a public area inside the border office. This was some time ago but I see no evidence of softening of the hostile attitudes towards immigrants and non-immigrants that are held by some in USCIS and which are ignored, implicitly condoned, or even institionalised.
@fn0
I renounced 4 years ago but do have a US birthplace on my Canadian passport. I’m also a Canadian citizen, resident in Canada. I am not non white as well but have seen rude treatment by US border agents towards foreigners and non whites with visas. It is frightening and I don’t enjoy visiting the US but do so due to my relatives poor health and inability to travel. Difficult choice to make these days. Travel to the US needs to be done with great caution unfortunately.
I love sandwiches, though a recent health scare restricts me to the gluten-free kind. And I’m also one of those unfortunate schmucks (schmuckesses?) who has been compliant all along, but went through the same OMG stages of grief as Petlover, made worse by not having an escape route: a single-passport holder without immediate prospects of an alternative citizenship. I’ve also been treated like poo at US Immigration. So what’s my label, if I’m not a sandwich? I guess I’d call myself a sh!t sandwich citizen.
Yes, I agree with you PatCanadian, we must all weigh our options and do what’s best for ourselves to improve our daily lives and not necessarily base our decision on uncertain, short-term, exceptional circumstances. My plan is to only travel to the US if urgently necessary. My Austrian passport shows my US birthplace, so I’d carry a copy of my CLN to avoid any “discussions” (although I’ve read on other IBS threads that CBP can see your CLN on their database when they scan your passport). I believe it’s possible to spend 90 days in the US with just the ESTA visa waiver program; if I had to stay longer then I’d need a visa, in which case I would keep track of the total days over time to prevent myself being deemed a taxpayer again.
My bad experience was in Toronto at Pearson Airport. I was still a US citizen and was travelling back to the US with my dual citizen child and NRA husband. Previously, in Dublin, Ireland, my husband had been allowed to pass through pre-clearance along with me and our child at the USP counter. Not so in Toronto. They directed all of us to the non-US lanes where we stood on line for five hours and nearly missed our flight. There were no lines whatsoever at any of the five USP counters, so I got a bit peeved about the slow processing time for a ridiculous total of two non-US lanes. I asked if we could use the empty USP lanes to speed up our wait because it was getting close to our boarding time and mentioned we had just been through pre-clearance in Dublin a few days prior and were all processed there as USPs. Well, speaking up turned out to be a BIG mistake! Those CBP officers got belligerent and nasty really quickly when it appeared I was questioning their methods. Two big guys with guns came and stood in front of me and intimidatingly asked if I was lodging a formal complaint, all the while their hands hovering over their weapons. I said no, that I was merely inquiring as to why we were being subjected to such dramatic waiting times when my previous experience told me it was possible for my entire family to be processed as USPs, like in Dublin just a few days prior. CBP pulled me aside and badgered me for around 15 minutes about filing a complaint even though I said no. Obviously, they don’t deal with criticism well. It also didn’t make a bit of difference that my child and I were US citizens standing on the wrong line (or that none of us were “non-white”).
I was shocked and appalled by the encounter, especially after the pleasant and friendly processing we had experienced in Dublin on more than one occasion. I’ve since learned that Pearson Airport’s US pre-clearance is notorious for their rotten interpersonal skills (to put it nicely). CBP really knows how to roll out the welcome mat, US citizen or not. And now I’ve read that they cruise the highways in the 100-mile border zone and randomly spot-check people to inquire about their citizenship. It’s the stuff of nightmares, really.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/23/us/maine-new-hampshire-border-patrol-checkpoints/index.html?no-st=1530702723
I only found out two weeks ago about the CBT nightmare. I left the USA at the age of 21 (never earned enough to ever file a tax return whilst there), took on British citizenship in 1991, and have only ever gone back to the USA for holidays. I’m now working on getting complaint, and early 2019 I’ll file two more years worth and renounce. I’ll never owe any tax (my salary is so small!) but the fear and horror I’ve felt the past two weeks is not worth repeating every year. Or the worry about changes in USA tax law, and how those would affect me.
@Birdperson
Welcome to Brock.
If it will give you peace of mind you do not have to be tax compliant to renounce, you can do so now and catch up on the back filing later with an explanation that you did not know you needed to file tax returns.
When you renounce the embassy will not ask any tax related questions and their forms do not contain them
To avoid covered status you will have to file form 8854 by June the year following renunciation.
You can read and ask any questions here.
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/how-to-renouncerelinquish/
PS @ BirdPerson
Here is some more info re renouncing and tax filing
http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/renunciation-interations-between-department-of-state-and-the-internal-revenue-service/comment-page-1/#comment-8315568
Thanks for the advice, everyone! Problem is, I have a once in a lifetime chance to spend a month in the USA with my sister and her family (I have a sabbatical this year). My USA passport runs out on 8 October, and my flight is on 17 October. I don’t return until 17 November. It seems nonsensical to renounce in December, because I’d still have to file for most of 2018 and, I assume, I’d have to file not only 2014 but 2013 for the five years. I’m assuming it’s a full five years you need to file, not four years and 11 months!
Consider renouncing by year-end 2018 if you can instead of leaving it to 2019 as then you avoid having to file a dual status tax return in 2020 for the 2019 tax year. If you renounce in 2018 you finish the tax filings in 2019 otherwise the paperwork can drag on until mid 2020. Probably the same number of filings but you finish sooner.
@BirdPerson
If it were me, I would go for Dec 2018, I wouldn’t want it to drag into 2020 and who knows what other hurdles the IRS will throw in your way. The fee already went up from $450 to $2,350 .
I suppose there is a miniscule chance there will be some relief from a passing of TTFI but with the ever changing rules and regulations, who would ever trust the US gov again?
All good advice. I’d have to take out a loan for the fee, but you’re right, it’d be worth it.
I’d like to renounce before then, but I’m not certain if I’d be let into the USA on my UK passport in October. I wouldn’t have my CLN by then, looking at the timescales others have quoted. The only reason I renewed my USA passport ten years ago is that I tried to enter the USA on my UK passport, and immigration hauled me off and gave me a stern lecture.
Remember, the USA passport runs out on 8 October. I have to go on 17 October, I can’t change those plans now.
Hmm. Been thinking this through.
Seems like a lot of effort to obtain a new USA passport only to give up citizenship a couple of months later.
Has anyone tried to travel on their other passport to the USA in the gap between renunciation and receiving CLN? My place of birth is USA, which is why I was picked up by immigration in the first place. I could take a copy of the renunciation form with me?
@BirdPerson
Each Embassy seems to have different regulations. Some take away your US passport and return it to you cancelled when your CLN comes through. Mine let me keep mine, and when I asked if I needed to travel to the US on a family emergency while waiting for my CLN which one should I use, they said I should use the US one! You could call/email the embassy and ask them their procedure.
I think considering you have a US birthplace, the safest would be to set up an appointment to renounce in DEC now, renew your passport and renounce on your return. The ESTA for non citizens is quite involved and asks quite intrusive questions re citizenship past and present, if might be difficult entering without a CLN in hand.
PS @BirdPerson
Here is a guide to the questions asked on the ESTA visa waiver.
http://www.estaform.co.uk/esta-questionnaire-usa.html
Looking at the official complete ESTA application is not possible as one has to complete one page before going to the next. Probably safer and easier to stay an American until December!
PPS BirdPerson
Another consideration is the ban on non US citizens who have visited these countries.
https://www.estavisaus.org/news/seven-countries-not-visit-if-you-want-to-travel-to-the-usa
Not been to those countries, although I have been to North Korea! I do have an interest in visiting Iran, so I’d better keep that in mind.
Funny how you say ‘stay an American.’ I truly thought I’d sacrificed my USA citizenship when I took on UK citizenship in 1991. So I was shocked when I was granted a new USA passport ten years ago, although I declared my UK citizenship at the time.
I do have a moral issue with applying for a new passport when I’m planning to renounce, but I guess I’ll just have to swallow that.
I renounced my US citizenship in London in October 2012, and travelled to the US on my UK passport in both early December 2012 (father’s 90th birthday) and early January 2013 (father’s death). On both occasions, I travelled, with ESTA clearance, while carrying the official-looking letter issued (I asked for it) by the US embassy in London, to justify my use of my UK passport. *No* problem at all on either occasion. My CLN arrived not long after my father’s death. Since then, when I have been to the US, I have done so without problem via the ESTA system – which has admittedly become significantly more onerous and cumbersome to use and get through since 2016. I have never regretted renouncing my US citizenship for a single second, and only wish I had done so many years earlier.
@ BirdPerson
“Funny how you say ‘stay an American.’ I truly thought I’d sacrificed my USA citizenship when I took on UK citizenship in 1991. So I was shocked when I was granted a new USA passport ten years ago, although I declared my UK citizenship at the time. ”
You could have claimed a backdated relinquishment from when you took British Citizenship in 1991 with no need to file back US taxes IF you fully intended to relinquish US citizenship and you did nothing American since then, ie using or renewing a US passport, voting in a US election, or filing US taxes. Relinquishment use to be free but now it will cost $2350 to document. Problem was no one told you this and you were tricked into using/renewing a US passport ( the same as Boris Johnson)
You could call the London Embassy and ask them about traveling on a UK or US passport after you renounce and before getting a CLN.
First off, I want to thank everyone who is taking the time to respond to me on this matter. It’s helping me to think through my next steps, and I’m very grateful.
Yes, I wish I’d not taken on the new passport. I actually travelled to the USA three times on my UK passport after 1991. It was on the third trip that I had my very unpleasant experience with US immigration. I actually thought I was going to be denied entry to the USA on that occasion.
By the way, not only in 1991, but every time I take on a new church (I’m a full time minister in the Church of England) I swear an oath of allegiance to the Queen. That’s the reason I plan to give for renunciation at my interview.
Good idea, why don’t I contact the London Embassy? I’ll do that next week. Thanks!
@BirdPerson
It looks like KingoftheRoad had no problems so you should be OK at the London Embassy.
Happy flight to Freedom.
Birdperson.. There is no requirement to give a reason. I second the idea of renouncing in 2018 if possible. We filed 5 yrs worth after renouncing . Nothing owing so no penalty. Never heard a word.
“Has anyone tried to travel on their other passport to the USA in the gap between renunciation and receiving CLN?”
The embassy gave me a letter to show to immigration in case immigration asked questions about my Canadian passport with US place of birth. Immigration didn’t ask questions but I carried the letter anyway. Some people carry a receipt showing that they paid the fee for renunciation or relinquishment. I don’t know if anyone gets asked for it.
If you intended to relinquish US citizenship when you took UK citizenship, and you used your UK passport until someone tricked you into renewing your US passport when you didn’t want to renew it, I bet you can still claim relinquishment backdated to when you took UK citizenship. This might avoid the need for filing any US tax returns after the backdated date of relinquishment.
The following current IRS position appears to apply to anyone who performed an expatriating act after 3 June 2004, in which case one’s US “Tax Citizenship” ends on the earliest of the four following possible dates:
1. the date the individual renounces his or her U.S. nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States, provided the renunciation is subsequently approved by the issuance to the individual of a certificate of loss of nationality by the U.S. Department of State;
2. the date the individual furnishes to the U.S. Department of State a signed statement of voluntary relinquishment of U.S. nationality confirming the performance of an act of expatriation specified in paragraph (1), (2), (3), or (4) of section 349(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481(a)(1)-(4)), provided the voluntary relinquishment is subsequently approved by the issuance to the individual of a certificate of loss of nationality by the U.S. Department of State;
3. the date the U.S. Department of State issues to the individual a certificate of loss of nationality; or
4 the date a U.S. court cancels a naturalized citizen’s certificate of naturalization.
The bottom line is that if the above applies then in the absence of a written statement sent to the State Department after the relinquishing act was performed, the IRS continues to require filing until the earliest of the other possible later dates, i.e. no backdating.
However if the relinquishing act was performed before 3 June 2004, it appears the IRS is unlikely to look for 1040s, an 8854, etc. and the notice to the State Department should be optional. But for many, particularly for those with a US place of birth, it may still be advisable to deal with the State Department to get a certificate of loss of nationality to show to financial institutions and border officials if needed.
I apologize if I have got this wrong or not provided the full picture; my excuse is that this is too easy to do when even advisors and so-called experts within and outside of the US government have differing interpretations.