Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@ Fred B
When you stop to analyse your reasoning it doesn’t hold water.
A country that cares so little for your wellbeing does not deserve your allegiance. That blue book doesn’t stand for much anymore. If you decide to give it up, they can never take the true American out of you.
You can apply for a green card IF you ever need to return. (If you have a special professional skill you will be welcomed). You can enter the US for up to 4 months/year and be greeted “have a great vacation”!
The last time I entered on my US passport I was given the Nth degree, ” How long have you been away, what are you doing, why are you abroad so often.”? I felt I had been let out on parole to see my 90 yr old, sick Father.
Your relatives and friends in the ‘homeland’ need not know which passport you carry. The ones I decided to tell were surprised and shocked not at my renunciation but at the situation that had caused it, especially when I gave them links to read from the international press. They could not understand why they had not been made privy to the situation in the US press.
You will become an equal among EU citizens and not treated as a second class person. (Maybe you haven’t yet been shown the door of a bank yet.) You will be able to invest in your practice and your retirement without lying. It’s called freedom and it’s not the type the US tries to sell us.
Nononymous – I always leaned towards the tough love approach. 🙂
But I’m sure your daughter will be fine. No doubt a visit home to Canada could save the hypothetical grandchild from a US birth, should the need arise.
Heidi — you know that I know you’re right of course.
The more options the merrier.
@nononymous
@ Nononymous
In case anyone is interested, and since I will be travelling soon, I compared Cdn$ costs for sending, taking, or spending £100 today:
1. Send £100 by PayPal C$176.03+2.99 fee = C$179.02
2. Get £100 cash in UK using Canadian debit card (ScotiaBank) = C$183.12 not including any local ATM fee.
(If Barclays Bank ATM is used cost is reduced to C$178.12).
3. Spend £100 using Canadian RBC credit card = C$178.84
4. Get £100 cash in Canada at Airport (YVR) = C$187.83
5. Get £100 cash in Canada at dealer downtown (VCBE) = C$172.14
I didn’t check out the cost of the services you would use if you have much larger amounts to move e.g. a year’s worth of pensions.
Draw your own conclusions. The lesson for me is to check the fees for using a debit card in a foreign ATM since it varies a lot. If you are buying stuff it sometimes can be cheaper to use credit rather than cash from a debit card. If the home bank and the ATM bank are affiliated then purchasing with cash from the ATM may be better. If you want £500 instead of £100 then flat-rate fees (e.g. per Scotia debit) are lower percentagewise.
Non-bank ATMs with names such as Travelex, Euronet, Moneybox, Cardpoint, and Cashzone may have high additional fees, possibly like the ATMs in the Las Vegas casinos.
Thanks for that.
I know the airport is a ripoff. I wonder if the bank rate is significantly worse than the dealer rate. I’ve either picked up pre-trip cash from a big downtown RBC branch (the one with the forex in stock) or done ATM withdrawals with a no-fee account. Wasn’t 100 percent clear from your debit card total how much was due to fees and how much due to poor exchange rate given by the bank, but I’m guessing you have about a 1.78 rate from bank and credit card, versus 1.76 for PayPal and 1.72 at a dealer. About a 3.5 percent spread, not insignificant.
To clarify and summarize, the rates to buy £1 and pay in C$ (not including fees for cards & ATM) were:
Royal Bank 1.745
Scotiabank 1.746
VCBE was 1.721 (about 1.5% better than banks)
P.S. When I changed US$8000 into Canadian a year ago I asked VanCity Credit Union for a good rate and they told me to call VCBE at the time of the transaction and they would match the rate that VCBE quoted for amounts over C$10000. Good service from the Credit Union! As the money was already in VanCity CU in a US$ account it would not have been convenient to go to a big bank so I didn’t ask any of them if they would match VCBE, but based on posted rates it looks like the savings might have been $100 or more – I don’t remember exactly.
@FredB
I do know that it was easier for me as I was only a naturalized American, my heart is elsewhere. 🙂
But a bit of paper really doesn’t change who you are.
@fn0 & nononymous
Another tip you may already know, when using your credit card abroad, if given a choice to pay for goods, always choose the currency of the country you are in at the time. You have a contract with your Credit card who will only charge between 1-3% of the interbank rate at that time/day. If you choose your home currency you are allowing the merchant to set the exchange rate which will be always in their favour.
@Fn0
FOREX companies will give a much better rate than banks or credit unions especially if the amount is over 10,000. You can book a spot rate and they will call if/when the rate is achieved.
Here are the interbank rates, they add a very small % depending on amount. You must open an ongoing account with them but of course the American question and proof is always asked
https://www.oanda.com/currency/live-exchange-rates/
@Nononymous
“We largely agree. Except in Jane’s case, given that Australia like Canada appears to be relatively slack on FATCA enforcement, I would suggest that unless her kids are planning very definitely to either renounce or move to the US, they should stop filing and go dark, as soon as possible. Stop filing and switch to new banks if the current ones are aware of US citizenship.”
All good- except until later, when the USA is in even further monetary trouble & go sniffing EVERYWHERE & decide $50,000 (or more) fine for every acct. not reported, per year, & etc….It’s ALL a money-grab, we know it.
Local banks now ask if you’re a US person.
I HATE my children being the mice.
@Jane
“All good- except until later, when the USA is in even further monetary trouble & go sniffing EVERYWHERE & decide $50,000 (or more) fine for every acct. not reported, per year, & etc….It’s ALL a money-grab, we know it.
Local banks now ask if you’re a US person.
I HATE my children being the mice.”
My thoughts exactly.
When all the low hanging fruit yet is found to not have yeilded anywhere near the fictious amout of money they believe is held off shore, only the blind and deaf can not foresee that the US will excert more pressure one each country that entered into a FATCA IGA.
REALITY:
No one knows.
BEST PRACTICE:
RUN!
This is the USA/IRS for real. I’m truly wondering those being non-plussed.
I guess it ends when our net is squelched.
@Jane
I know. I have to my SSN to Japanese banks and all my data including visa/immigration status to each and every employer. In today’s mail is another “request” for all this info. Just another off earlier this week. As I work on short term contracts, this is a monthly occurance. At least once a month I am having to out myself to this employer or that FI.
“No worries” they say…”they’ll never find ya” they say…
Uh oh, feedback loop.
Jane, from a peace of mind perspective, you should probably renounce. Make sure your kids are aware of the pros and cons but ultimately it’s their decision.
Nope, just one whomhas to out himsef monthly in order to stay employed commenting to another who has knowledge of the enemy.
Okay- apparently the ones replying here aren’t the true people who would know.
I renounced & am no longer US cit.
It is my two AU/USA children I’m worried over.
Are there any mothers here who can give advice?
Jane,
It is for my children that I am most concerned about. I’m toast. What ever “solution” the bozos in congress come up with be too late for me.
@Jane, no mom, but can only repeat my advice. It’s their decision, all you can do is make them aware of the situation and give them the pros and cons re the citizenship. Whether you’re scared for them or not, you don’t have the final say. Talk it over with them, get their views and then they can make the decision they need to make. If they want to keep it, then you have to respect that. It’s not your choice.
Sadly, it’s not our kids choice either. They have it and must purchase their freedom from it. It is their choise to make said purchase, if they can afford it.
@Jane
Why only mothers? Males are capable of parenting. (About to insert a joke about Australian stereotypes here, but have resisted the urge.)
The advice I give my own daughter (dual but with no US birthplace) is very simple: never tell anyone that you are a US citizen, be aware of the risks, but don’t think about renouncing until either (1) you have completed higher education (which could be age 30 if she’s like her parents) and are very certain you will never take advantage of the citizenship, or (2) storm clouds are gathering, in terms of financial vulnerability. I’ll probably continue to monitor the situation so will provide ongoing advice on point number two. Inheritance may change the picture at some point in the future.
We’ve had a few chats and will have a more serious discussion when she turns 18. I have no concerns for her well-being at this point.
Forgot the one other piece of advice to the kid: under no circumstances file tax returns or FBARs or attempt compliance prior to actually moving to the US.
OK.
Without getting butt-hurt– I ask mothers because that is the only good experience I’d had finding stuff not in shops.
???
@Jane
I’m not offended, but in this day and age we should call gender bias when we see it.
Question1. I want to know what the IRS does if I am a covered expat with net worth over $2 million and renounce citizenship. Does IRS go to the tax authorities of the country whose citizenship one acquires to check your tax returns or what else does it do?
Thx
LCIT
No, they won’t go to the tax authorities in your other country. What they will likely do though, if you don’t do your US tax filing and the 8854 form, is assess you for tax owed and if you visit/transit through the States in future you might be stopped and held at the US airport until you pay up. And as a covered expat there is a possibility of you being denied entry to the US – Mr. Reed’s Amendment is law and just because they haven’t worked out how to implement it yet, doesn’t mean they won’t some day. And there have been reports of people being denied entry under his amendment already.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reed_Amendment_(immigration)