Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
DoD, yes. Bear33 is not based in Canada, but in Europe. Only a US passport and CLN will work for him. Turning up with a European passport and no CLN, saying he’s relinquished US citizenship but can’t afford the paperwork will not get him into the country.
DoD – “Not so.”
I agree. Since he’s not a US citizen, he doesn’t have a US passport and can’t obtain one.
To visit the US he would need to go through whatever procedure is in place between his own country and the US – visa, ESTA, whatever.
plaxy, he could try, but US law say US citizens must use a US passport to enter the country. If he can’t prove he’s not a citizen a European passport and ESTA will probably not work. ESTA also asks for details of your last US passport when applying if you have a US birthplace. I had to give details of mine when I applied last year for an ESTA, even though I’d renounced in March 2013.
Medea – What I mean is that a person who is no longer a US citizen can’t visit the US on “a US passport and a CLN”. Only a US citizen can get a US passport.
If the person wants to visit the US but has trouble getting a visa or ESTA permission to enter because he or she was born in the US, that could be annoying or inconvenient or painful, for the person experiencing the refusal, but ultimately it’s up to the US to choose who can visit.
If the person doesn’t care about visiting the US, then of course it’s not a problem.
I renounced my US citizenship in 2014 a day before the price increase from $495 to $2,350. At that time I was living in Austria as a EU citizen (Slovakia), and planning on applying for Austrian citizenship in a year and would need to give up my US citizenship anyway as Austria does not allow dual citizenship. So when I learned of the upcoming price increase, I decided to go ahead and renounce and save the money.
Since that time, my son, who is 10 years old and an US citizen, has been diagnosed with some serious learning disorders, and I haven’t been able to find a school in Austria or other parts of Europe that cater to students with his set of special needs.
I would like to return to the US to live for long term so he can attend an appropriate middle school and high school. I can not afford sending him to a boarding school in the US and he needs me with him anyway.
Yesterday I was at the Consulate in Slovakia and the counsel said I could submit an appeal letter to have my renunciation reconsidered and my US citizenship re-instated. The counsel said that my appeal letter should state that I renounced my US citizenship in 2014 under compulsion and undue influence of another. Also, my action of renunciation was not voluntary on my part but made under extreme duress. The counsel said that the reconsideration process is long and most likely would not be successful.
Has anyone every done this? Or do you know of someone who was successful in re-instating US citizenship after renunciation? What needs to be stated in the appeal letter to have the reconsideration and reinstatement process successful?
My son is still too young to sponsor me for US citizenship as he would need to be 21. My siblings could sponsor me but there is at least a 12 year waiting list for family immigration green cards.
The only advise I have been given by US expat groups, is just return to the US and live there illegally. I have all US documents, no foreign accent etc, and no one suspects I am no longer a US citizen.
Helen – my sympathies with your difficult situation.
“I have all US documents,”
Passport? My US passport was clipped when I renounced, was yours not? Or are you considering applying for a renewal?
Plaxy,
I have all documents: SS, birth certificate, drivers license but I don’t have a valid US passport because they punch holes in them.
I assumed if I went to the Dept of State- Passport Agency to get a new passport, saying I “lost” the old one or was “stolen”, they would see in their records, that I renounced and the date I renounced.
@ Helen
The maximum you will be able to stay legally in the US as a non resident alien is 120 days/year, on a complex rolling average system, explain here by Phil Hodgen.
https://hodgen.com/u-s-resident-status-expatriation/
The average US school year is 180 days. Could you find a relative friend to care for your son for those extra 60 days? Do you have a partner who could share and stagger the extra time to be in the USA with him.
I assume your son’s education will only last for 6 years and I would consider very carefully handcuffing yourself to the US again for the rest of your life. Who knows how difficult it will be to free yourself in the future?
Yes, that seems likely.
And if you entered the US on your EU Member State passport + CLN, you would be expected to leave after – what is it, 90 days? I don’t know what procedures they have for enforcing that.
If you were found out, it could leave you (and therefore your son) in a worse position than if you hadn’t tried. And it seems a horrifically stressful life (always worrying if you might be caught) when you really don’t need any added stress.
Maybe there’s a suitable school in a different EU country?
Heidi,
I have a B1/B2 visa which is valid until 2015. I would be in the US as a Slovak citizen.
The US counsel in Slovakia said I could stay 6 months in the US for each calendar year. Maybe he didn’t know that as a former US citizen, I can’t stay as long as a Slovak citizen. The visa doesn’t say I am a former US citizen, but my Slovak passport shows my birthplace as Oregon, USA, so maybe the border/immigration people would know.
It is hard getting help, because I am the first case they had in Slovakia first to renounce and then to try and re-instate. They think I was crazy to do it in the first place. This is a real mess…
My problem is not taxation. I make a small income and so I am below their income requirements.
I am single mom, so don’t have a spouse to help with living over there.
I have checked around Europe– nothing really satisfactory. Plus there is the language issue he speaks English and German, and it would be hard to start in on another language in 6th grade with his other issues.
Plus, there are some really good schools in the US that look like they would be a good fit. So I think I will try to appeal the renunciation at this point.
Yes, visitors/non citizens can stay in the US for up to 6 months in any one year, but staying that length of time would then limit your stay the following two years, the average has to work out to be 120/days over 3years. I think Canadian snowbirds get a longer allowance.
Take a look at the link I posted which explains it.
There must be somewhere in the EU or Switzerland who could cater to his needs.
@helen
The taxation definition is just part of being legally resident.
The taxation issue is not an issue for me, I am below the income requirement.
I think I would continue to try the appeal path. He has 8 more years until High School graduation and then maybe university. It would be hard to be there piecemeal on a B1/B2 visa .
I read on this site a lady in Canada appealed and was successful, does anyone know what exactly needs to be stated in the appeal letter?
Heidi – “There must be somewhere in the EU or Switzerland who could cater to his needs.”
I agree.
Helen – if you can find a suitable school in Europe, you could proceed with your appeal, and if it succeeded, at that point you could return to the US and finish his school years there if you still felt that was best for him.
@helen
The rolling average rule is just to illustrate how long you would be able to live in the US legally. Anything over that would officially trigger tax consequences) if applicable and might lead to deportation or being refused a visa to return.
The web administrators of Brock are in Canada and may be able to locate info about any successful appeal of renunciation when they are awake.
I just want to add that if your son does consider university in his future, the cost of this in the US is astronomical compared to Europe.
Have you tried Switzerland for his educational needs? They speak German, are part of the EEA and as such must accept freedom of movement from within the EU.
@Helen, did you mean a visa until 2025? Because we’re past 2015 by 2 years.
@Heidi, Switzerland might be a possibility, but I know it doesn’t seem to be as advanced in dealing/coping with special needs as some other countries are. Totally depends on where you happen to be in the country. Still it may be worth Helen checking with this organisation: http://www.allspecialkids.org which is a support group for parents of special needs kids. They may be able to give her more suggestions/advice. But again, moving here will depend on whether she can support both herself and her son. She/he wouldn’t be entitled to any financial help from the Swiss.
Helen – the USG has this list which might be useful:
Overseas Schools Offering Support to Children with Special Needs 2016-2017
https://www.state.gov/documents/organization/176076.pdf
Medea,
Yes I meant my visa was good until 2025, I got it in 2015 and it is valid for 10 years.
I actually lived in Lausanne and was part of the Special Kids chapter in Geneva. Getting services
for special needs children is still in the beginning stages in Switzerland and is an uphill battle.
I ended up leaving Switzerland partly because of it.
I think the UK is the most advanced in Europe for services for special needs children. But the best research and services I have experience are affliated with UCLA, they are really on the cutting edge
“…the best research and services I have experience are affliated with UCLA, they are really on the cutting edge.”
Can they advise you on how you might be able to accompany your son?
If other European/NRA parents have brought their children to the school, the school will know about visas.
Helen
If moving to the UK is a consideration, then you should make a move before March 2019 when Brexit is due to happen.
I think that ship has sailed. There’s going to be a cutoff date, not yet determined but it’s not going to help anyone not already resident in the UK on EU rules.
Plaxy
The EU made it very clear that the UK are still officially in the EU until March 2019 and as such EU laws of freedom of movement still apply until then.
Yes but March 2019 is 18 months from now.
@plaxy
Yes but those EU citizens who are offically resident on that date will then have to apply for permits, which will qualify them for permanent status after they have achieved 5 years of residency. Some EU citizens will already have achieved this and will qualify immediately as long as they can prove this.