Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@JustGetItDone and Bubblebustin:
What CIBC has done is infuriating and frightening. Bubbles advice about contacting you MP and the Revenue Minister is a very good start. I would also consider getting rid of CIBC altogether if I were in your shoes. Take your investments elsewhere, when you can get them out of CIBC. Congrats on getting your CLN.
I wonder just how long it will be before Canadian banks start deflecting blame onto the Canadian government for signing the IGA.
Good thing we have a record of them lobbying the Canadian government.
@ PortlandPLC and InNeedofHelp,
I sent your e-mail address to InNeedofHelp. Thanks!
Just get it done. The media are the only ones who get things done. Try your local paper or tv station. CIBC has a complaint process and ombudsman.
woo hoo, magically CIBC now indicates the restrictions have been lifted. off to pick a new place to do my investing now.
Way to go JustGetItDone. That’s great. What a mess we’re in!
@JGID
Long before I knew about my tax filing obligations to the US (but not so far back that they weren’t included in the requisite 8 years of FBAR’s for OVDI) I too once had accounts at CIBC.
I remember a very aggressive customer retention division. Be prepared.
Wow, there are way too many acronyms on this site for someone who doesn’t have a clue about this mess to begin with. Can we have a glossary for those of us unfamiliar with all these acronyms? A lot of the “accidental americans” probably even have English as a second language…. FBAR and IRS (and US) have made their way into my vocabulary, but… NB, CIBC, CLN, OVDI, IGA, MP, ADCS, CRA, just on this page alone…
What is the difference between renunciation and relinquishment?
A glossary is an excellent idea. For now, here are some.
CLN Certificate of Loss of Nationality (Your “get out of jail” card)
OVDI Overseas Voluntary Disclosure Initiative (Where you voluntarily give up all your rights and voluntarily submit to a couple years of torture by paperwork at great expense to prove you owe very little or nothing to the IRS)
IGA InterGovernment Agreement (The agreement every nation on the planet was coerced in to signing. It gives the U.S. sole power to determine who is and is not a U.S. Person for US tax purposes. Your government, by signing this, agrees to rat out anyone who the IRS says might possibly be a U.S. Person for US tax purposes, including citizens of your nation.)
MP Member of Parliment. (An overpaid underworked individual who has taken an oath to protect and uphold the founding principles of their government yet knows or cares not what these principles are and sell out their citizens to the U.S.)
CRA Canadian Revenue Agency (The Canadian branch of the U.S. IRS)
ADCS ( A group of Canadians who have much more in common with the American Spirit of 1776 that 98% of of actual Americans have combined).
@Lis,
That’s a good idea.
Meanwhile the abbreviations you asked about:
NB – nota bene (note well or take note)
CIBC – Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce
CLN – Certificate of Loss of Nationality
OVDI – Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Initiative
IGA – Inter-Governmental Agreement
MP – Member of Parliament
ADCS – Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty
CRA – Canada Revenue Agency
There are 7 methods by which a person can relinquish their US citizenship. Renunciation is one of them (Immigration and Nationality Act, INA, s. 349(a)(5)). Others common ones are by naturalising in a foreign country (INA, s. 349(a)(1) or by government employment (INA, s. 349(a)(4)) or military service (INA, s. 349(a)(3)). All 7 are set out in s. 349(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act. See also: Renunciation and Relinquishment: What are the differences? Is there a difference?
It’s been a few years since I have renounced my U$ citizenship and I am curious about a few things. First of all, they sent me back my cancelled passport. I really didn’t want this and now I am forever saddled with this thing. Is it even possible to shred it or is there some obscure law against “defacing” a cancelled passport? I’ve thought about just bringing it back to the local consulate, however, it’s like Fort Knox to get in there, and I really do not wish to even step foot in that place again.
Regarding my godforsaken SSN. Is this cancelled or does this taint me for life? Can this go in the shredder as well?
@Jeffrey B, I would do neither. If you ever need to go to the States again you’ll need your old US passport details for the ESTA application. And if you’re entitled to any American pension then you’ll need the SSN. Just file them somewhere so you can find them again if ever you need them.
@JeffreyB
Your SSN sticks with you for life and doesn’t expire on renunciation, but it’s not like only US and former US citizens have them. Anyone who has lived in the US, even temporarily, ends up getting one, so it isn’t quite the mark of Cain. I have one, but never was (and never will be) a US citizen. By and large, you can just file it away somewhere and let it metaphorically gather dust in a drawer. As Medea notes, it could be useful some day to claim social security or other US pension benefits you might have paid into in the past.
How do I make a post about a topic as a main topic? Not a reply?
Mods?
@Medea Fleecestealer , @Watcher
Thank you for your replies.
Hello all. Does anyone have any experience with Greenback Expat Tax Services? I found them on the internet. They offer a “Streamlined Filing Package” for $1450 (i assume US $), Are they legit? Are they competent?
@Henry
Does the $1450 include filing 3520 and 3520-A forms for your ‘foreign trust’ (RESP, RDSP, and TFSA) accounts? Does it include filing 8621 forms for each of your non-RRSP PFICs (mutual funds)?
It’s possible $1450 is just the tip of the iceberg, unless you have a very simple financial situation.
And, to answer the question, I have no knowledge of Greenback Expat Tax Services. I can give you the name of a competent, legit service in Vancouver that I, and some other people I know, use/used, but that’s about it. Ask an admin for my email address if you want it.
OTOH, you can consider a DIY approach, depending on your assets, income, complexity of your situation, risk-tolerance, comfort with forms, etc, etc, etc. FWIW, I don’t think we’re yet to hear of anyone who took the DIY route having a bad outcome.
One other thing, if the goal is to get compliant in order to renounce, consider doing more than the 3 years of returns required by Streamlined – it is allowed.
@Henry: Read my series, Petros Principles, please, before doing anything. http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2016/07/24/petros-principles-8-on-the-beast
@Henry
And, do you know for a *fact* that you’re (still) a US citizen? It may sound like a dumb question, but it actually isn’t.
Henry. Change banks.
@tdott
“I can give you the name of a competent, legit service in Vancouver that I, and some other people I know, use/used, but that’s about it. Ask an admin for my email address if you want it.”
I would love this info — I just got my CLN this year and the accountant I’ve been using has never done work for someone who’s expatriated, so I’m not keen on having him do my 8854, etc. Mods, please send tdott my email address (or send his to me). Thanks!
WestCoster. SKL tax.
I have steered clear of TFSAs, RESPs, RDSPs, and Mutual funds outside RRSPs because of complexities with 3520s, 8621s, but may still want a competent accountant in Metro Vancouver to help with the 8854. If possible can you pass my email to Westcoaster or vice versa.
On another thread, once everything is wrapped up I will be looking to see if we could find any lawyer out there might be interested in a class action lawsuit to try and get back some of the $2350 fee for as many of those who paid it as can be identified (through the register list?). I think it could be shown that the State Dept’s claim that it costs them $2350 to process a renunciation and CLN is an unreasonable exaggeration. Would it even be possible to sue the State Dept through the Vancouver consulate in Canada?
@fn0
“On another thread, once everything is wrapped up I will be looking to see if we could find any lawyer out there might be interested in a class action lawsuit to try and get back some of the $2350 fee for as many of those who paid it as can be identified (through the register list?). I think it could be shown that the State Dept’s claim that it costs them $2350 to process a renunciation and CLN is an unreasonable exaggeration. Would it even be possible to sue the State Dept through the Vancouver consulate in Canada?”
I’m interested in this as well. After attempting a relinquishment in 2014, the Vancouver Consulate and the State Department told me that I would have to renounce and pay the $2350US fee. Relinquishment would have been free at the time. This was a financial hardship for me. Would love to sue them for this. A class action law suit sounds good.