Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
Ask your questions about Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship and Certificates of Loss of Nationality.
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NB: This discussion is a continuation of an older discussion that became too large for our software to handle well. See Renunciation and Relinquishment of United States Citizenship: Discussion thread (Ask your questions) Part One
@calgary411 – thanks! I’m now hoping the real thing will arrive tomorrow or Monday – a later email from the Consulate said it would be in today’s post (from Amsterdam to my UK address), so I was mistaken in thinking I had to wait for it to be sent from Washington!
I agree with EmBee, AD203. Don’t give up and please stay in touch. We are pulling for you getting your German citizenship and ridding yourself of the extraneous. You certainly know and should have the right to choose where you spend your life and bettering yourself which will benefit all of your fellow German countrymen. Thanks for sharing the story of your personal situation, another chapter in the many different ones we have. Godspeed, AD203.
Please AD203 stay in touch with us. Thank you so much for sharing with us the incredible experience you have endured. You have all my admiration for being so strong in the face of adversity. You are one brave man with so much determination. I am heartbroken that this USA imposed nightmare is one you are also caught up in.
If you feel it would be of any benefit to you, feel free to ask a Brock administrator for my personal email address ( I am one of the plaintiffs in this case) and I would be very happy to communicate with you. You are not alone, we are here for you. This is why we do what we do and we all wish the best for you. I am so glad you have found the Brock site and truly hope you feel comfortable here. Stick with us, as we will with you. You are now among friends. Welcome home. This is your safe place.
@AD203
I know it’s harder said than done — boy, do I know — but try not to put pressure on yourself and save your energy to focus on everything that could go right, instead of what could go wrong. You’re clearly a tough and adaptable individual, so I’m sure you will thrive no matter what.
Ich drücke dir die Daumen!
@ AD203
It’s as easy as that. The admins watch the comments quite closely and will follow up to make the connection. We’re all pullin’ for ya.
AD203,
I will send Canadian Ginny your email address so she can contact you offline.
I offer my apologies if this question should go in another thread but I’ve noticed that some of the posts here imply that the U.S. has no way to collect the money they are attempting to extort from us. Is that true?
I’ve been trying to catch up on all this, mainly focusing on their tax laws but I have read somewhere that FATCA compliant FFIs are or can be required to freeze accounts or even seize the funds in the account(s) of individuals that they refer to as recalcitrant tax payers. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find that information again but I do remember that is was on one of the U.S. government web sites. Can Canadian banks legally freeze or hand over money to the IRS?
anonForSafety –
Re: The U.S. has no way to collect the money they are attempting to extort in Canada?
Like so much, this situation seems a matter for great uncertainty — especially for those who wince at braggadoccio reliance on dead Flaherty’s (a) feeble reiteration of legal technicality (b) scattergun letter-to-the-editor diplomacy fail. Consider first the direct US jurisdiction over a “Canadian” bank that has locations and assets physically situated within US borders. Consider second the inter-state agreements between Canada and the US, how they may be interpreted and/or amended in the future, and the resources available to most individuals to contest unfavorable circumstances. Consider last the US joy in wielding of available powers, and Canadian servility to the FATCA imperative.
anon4safety
You should pay no attention to usxcanada. If you go back and read his posts you will see that he delights in being a jerk.
Canadian banks cannot legally freeze accounts or hand over your money to the IRS. All that they can legally do, if they suspect you have the American taint, and you refuse to cooperate by signing a W8 is report your account.
Don’t tell your FI where you were born. You don’t need a passport to open an account. If asked to sign a IRS form for an investment account, sign the W 8 Ben which states you are not a US person.
@AD203
I feel so much for your situation. I was, as you, caught in immigration-limbo. It’s a horrible feeling that you’re “caught” — stuck in the air with no place to truly call your own. I felt the very same about AU as you do about Germany.
If I were you, I’d have another look around for visa consultants (vs. immi lawyers). I went the lawyer path first & got no where (but got a lighter wallet). I then went to a visa person & it turns out that she was on a first name basis with the very people handling my case. Everything worked out in the end- but not before the same sort of terrible stress & strain you’ve detailed here.
I wish you much success & if you’d like to have a further chat about it, feel free to ask the mods for my email.
🙂
@Duke of Devon, anonForSafety, no it doesn’t. But that also doesn’t mean a bank will not block/freeze the account until they’re satisfied that the client is US tax compliant. That has happened several times here in Switzerland. Their IGA says the same about not having to withhold tax or close the account, but it didn’t stop them blocking/freezing them anyway.
“andy05 says
January 12, 2016 at 1:33 pm
@Jane: I now see your question “What do I do come US tax time?”
My reply is that you should file a 1040 up to the date you claim to have lost US citizenship and a 1040NR (even if it is all zeroed out) for the remainder of the year.
For future years do nothing unless you have US income. Filing the way I suggested starts the statute of limitations running. After 3 (or 6) years you the IRS cannot come back to you, absent fraud or gross underreporting.
Sorry it’s been so long since this was posted. I must’ve missed reading. Two questions for you all:
1) What has everyone who has filed done about the partial year of income? Have you done as Andy05 has stated above? I’m curious about filing “all zeros”? If not, what did you do?
2) I receive child support for my younger daughter– is that considered “income”?
Cheers
Medea. We all understand that Switzerland is a special case. Canada is not the same.
Anon. Way back the IRS tried to attack a Canadians bank account in Canada. The Canadian court told them to get lost.
Now imagine this scenario. An IRS guy says to himself There’s this guy up in Canada who never filed. I guess he might owe us some money. I think I’ll ask all the banks in Canada if they know this guy and if I find his bank, I’ll tell them to send us some. Give me a break.
@AD203
I know it’s a long shot but do you have any grandparents who are Irish? This would entitle you to an Irish passport and the right to live anywhere in the EU. It would buy you some time. You can then decide later on German citizenship. I think there may be other EU countries that offer similar but you would have to check that out.
Jane Good question. Google it and you will come up with something like this; For the Excited States- child support is not taxable. For Canada there is a16 page answer that basically says any amount pursuant to a court order IS taxable in the hands of the recipient.
Jane, the IRS page on this says: https://www.irs.gov/publications/p597/ar02.html
I believe Jane lives in Australia.
From the US Treasury’s Technical Analysis of the Australian treaty:
Which is as clear as mud. The first sentence says these payments are taxable only in the country where they originate. But the rest talks only about cross-border payments; it’s silent on payments arising in Australia paid to Australian resident US citizens. The actual clause in the treaty only talks about cross-border transfers. Note that this is one of the provisions specifically exempted from the savings clause.
There’s a similar lack of clarity about social security pensions (UK State Pension) in the US/UK Treaty.
Personally, I take the view that it means that a {state pension | child support payment} arising in the non-US country and paid to a US citizen resident in that country, is taxable only in that country.
Consequently I excluded the pension from my Gross Income according to the 1040 instructions (income exempt under a treaty).
Treaty positions relating to the payment of pensions, alimony, child support, etc, are among those for which reporting is waived. To me that suggests that that’s what the IRS expects you to do, otherwise the reporting of the treaty position would not be waived.
But whether my interpretation is “correct” or not, I don’t know. And don’t really care. They can ask me about it, if they’re bothered, which I doubt.
Correction – should have checked before I posted. Reporting of a treaty-based return position concerning child support is not specifically mentioned as waived. But depending on amount, maybe it would be covered by another paragraph: “Reporting is waived for an individual if payments or income itemsotherwise reportable under this section (other than by reason of paragraph (b)(8) of this section), received by the individual during the course of the taxable year do not exceed $10,000 in the aggregate”
§ 301.6114-1(c)(2)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/301.6114-1
@AD203;
I can’t add anything more than those above have already said so ably. Thank you for sharing your story. Glad that reading here has helped in any way. Take care.
@ Westcoaster,
Congrats on receiving your Freedom papers.
@badger, thanks! I still can’t believe it, but it’s slowly starting to sink it.
Thanks all. As with all else & FATCA, I’m as confused now as ever…
I’m just gob-smacked at the world caving in on something like this where LITERALLY no one knows what’s supposed to happen?
Why? Is there truth to the conspiracy-theory of lord/serf returning?
Jane, confusion is the new clarity. You are not doing it right if it makes sense.
@WhiteKat
I’m not concerned with making sense as much as I am trying to extricate myself from a web which is self-creating & attempts to pull all of our world into it. It is obscene at it’s base. I am questioning why all the world caved rather than to appeal to the UN in protest of extortion?
WFT is going on??