FATCA Discussion Thread (Ask your questions) Part Two
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Please ask your questions here about FATCA.
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Data protection page for EU, for your perusing
New Rules To Bring Kuwaitis With US Passport In Tax Net
Violating US Citizens Worldwide Face Legal Measures
The United States is ready to take legal measures against its citizens who fail to comply with the law and settle payable taxes all over the world, sources added, indicating the banks and exchange companies in Kuwait are uneasy with the declaration of FATCA, as it violates the code of banking and confidentiality- given that the banking institutes are obliged to give the concerned American authorities access to their American clients’ accounts.
They also fear the banks and exchange companies could be hacked when the concerned American authorities get access to the accounts of their citizens, as the system is not covered legally, stressing implementation of the law necessitates the application of series of high quality protective systems, which unfortunately, are unavailable in the majority of Kuwaiti financial establishments.
Some thoughts of German Green in NYT article “Germans Loved Obama. Now We Don’t Trust Him.”
“[Obama’s] speech caused many Germans to question whether Americans actually share our understanding of the right balance between liberty and security.”
“Perhaps instead of including a quote from James Madison in his speech, arguing that “No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare,” Mr. Obama should have been reminded of the quote from another founding father, Benjamin Franklin, when he said, “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
This is a very interesting interview:
‘FATCA Interview with Bill Yates – Former Attorney, Office of Associate Chief Counsel (International), IRS
July 1, 2013’
Thanks to Blaze at Maple Sandbox for finding and posting this.
I have tweeted that a few times earlier today when it was sent to me. Interesting comment about where FBARs go, eh?
This may not have been posted here before, but here is a FATCA notice from ING bank:
“…If you are a U.S. Person, we may ask you to complete an IRS W-9 form (Request for Taxpayer Identification Number and Certification). We may also ask you for consent to provide personal and Account information to the IRS. The Canadian Federal Government is currently working towards an agreement with the IRS to determine exactly how Canadian financial institutions will need to report this information. We’ll be able to let you know more about the information required and how we will be reporting it as soon as this agreement is finalized…..”
@Just Me, I found that interesting, but also these parts:
“…“no,” there was no legislative history. But, it was understandable. The regulations under section 6038D were to be legislative, rather than interpretative regulations. When regulations are to be “legislative” it means Congress wanted to give IRS great latitude in drafting the rules. Our job was not to provide an interpretation of the new legislation; it was to provide a set of rules to make the statute “effective.” In other words, we had to make the statute work….”……….
……..”….Yates: Well, we all knew the reason for section 6038D. Section 6038D was enacted in order to put the kind of foreign bank account reporting required by Form 90-22.1, Foreign Bank Account Report (FBAR), under Title 26, the Internal Revenue Code. FBAR reporting is required pursuant Title 31, the Bank Secrecy Act. Because of this, IRS could not initiate an audit of a taxpayer based solely on an FBAR filing. The taxpayer being examined had to have an underlying Title 26 issue. Only with a Title 26 issue could IRS use account information found on an FBAR in furtherance of an audit or exam of the taxpayer. Hence, Congress gave IRS section 6038D, Title 26 of the Internal Revenue Code. In short, Congress gave IRS its own FBAR….”
Yates: “That’s it. The truth is that it was never clear to me what happened to the FBARs. But, I will tell you one thing. The 8938s are going to be carefully scrutinized.”
Interesting. I can’t tell you how distressed I feel (NOT!) that they had such a difficult time making the legislation fit the forms or visa versa. Too bad they never consider what a difficult time mere mortals would eventually have making all the minutiae of their financial lives fit the forms they conjured up.
@Em, that’s the thing: “..Too bad they never consider what a difficult time mere mortals would eventually have making all the minutiae of their financial lives fit the forms they conjured up”
They will most likely never meet any mere mortals or have to actually fill out the forms themselves. It is easier to make everyone ‘abroad’ – a criminal in waiting – out of sight and out of mind, and forcibly subject and sacrifice all of us and our rights to their needs than it is to consider the effects and the severe consequences and the high price we pay.
In defense, if they’re ever forced to account for their actions, they’re sure to say that they’re ‘only following orders’.
Poorly written article on the Globe and Mail site this morning.
Thanks for the link…
Well, I not sure I would say poorly written, as it is pretty factually correct. It obviously is NOT an advocacy article from our POV with a narrative I would like, but there is NOTHING I can argue with in this statement.
“The basic idea [of] FATCA is quite problematic. It’s probably very expensive for our banks and foreign banks to implement, but it does seem to have played an influential role in encouraging automatic information exchange,” he said.,
The article has done a good job of showing the connection of FATCA to GATCA, and unfortunately, the support of the idea from the likes of Cockfield. They would prefer a GATCA over U.S. Unilateral FATCA
” it’s still up in the air whether we’ll see this multilateral information exchange. But I’ve written about it 13 years ago, and I’d love to see it.”
This is very accurate of what I fear.
I am beginning to think the push to GATCA will precede America’s acquiescence to DATCA. Maybe I should be saying, FATCA begets GATCA begets DATCA. Bottomline, look what FATCA hath wrought
Just Me, I’ve been saying that for a while now. America gave the rest of the world the FATCA idea and now, being as cash-strapped as they all are, they’re going to run with it. That’s why, even if Senator Rand is successful in getting FATCA repealed, US financial institutions are eventually going to have to cough up like the rest of the world to install systems for exchanging info. Wail and scream all they like, they only have their own government to blame for not changing it’s ridiculous tax system decades ago.
I have been trying to get media to see the larger narrative of FATCA DATCA GATCA This was my latest attempt… plus tie in NSA spying 🙂
I see there are a lot of comments on that Globe and Mail article. I just added mine, for what it is worth,,, I will now go give some thumbs up to the many others. 🙂
1:49 PM on July 2, 2013
Let’s face it. The enduring legacy of FATCA, will be momentum towards a Global GATCA, which assures that the automatic tax database exchanges will be created and open for hacking by the NSA. That is, if the IRS doesn’t just give them direct access under Homeland Security requirements.
So, if you LOVE NSA spying, Mr. Cockfield, I can see why you love FATCA!
The achilles heel in all this, is whether or not, the FATCAnatics in Treasury will be able to impose a domestic FATCA (DATCA) on U.S. Financial Institutions (USFIs) to meet their reciprocity promises to the world.
It will be only by done stealth policy laundering, as the House has already voiced strong bi-partisan objection in the Posey legislation last year, and HR 2299 has been submitted this year to stop the IRS from using unilateral regulations to do what Congress never intended in its original FATCA Statue.
Obama is not giving up, as he already has the FATCA reciprocity, (DATCA) reporting requirements on USFIs buried on page 202 of the FYR14 budget. Will they sneak it through? Not if the House of Representatives has anything to say about it.
So, time will tell whether Mr Cockfield gets his ‘love child’ of a GATCA which will allow completion of the Global Total information Awareness Project (GTIAP) by the NSA to get the whole enchilada. More than anything, either by intention or unintended consequences, that is what FATCA is all about.
FATCA is definitely NOT about the revenue. FATCA revenue to the U.S. by the Joint Committee of taxation bi-partisan estimates, would have only funded government in FY12 for 110 minutes, so hard to see that this is really about new tax revenues.
FATCA is about data collection and control by the Hegemon, and the world is playing into U.S. hands with the enthusiasm they now for FATCA IGAs and the extension to multilateral global automatic tax data exchanges or GATCA. Once Cockfield’s dream comes true, NSA will have EVERYTHING!
FATCA is begetting GATCA, and now it only needs that U.S. domestic DATCA to make it all work, and the biggest obstacle to that, so far, is in the Biggest Tax Haven in the world, the U.S. of A. How ironic!
@ Just Me
I’ll pop back into G&M to up arrow your comment. I’ve already distributed a quiver full there this morning. AtticusinCanada has been doing an outstanding job there, among others. I’ll try to come up with something too but right now I’m still catching up here at Brock.
Wow!. Go away for few hours and comments on the G&M article have jumped from 73 to 291. AtticusinCanada has sure been busy with replies!
Please add your comments also. Now is a critical change point for all those who know FATCA must be killed.
I did many hours ago. I think mine was comment 73, and I posted it above too. 🙂
In case this wasn’t posted:
iExpats: FATCA Rebels Battling To Stop Tax Law Starting
It has been called the worst law that many Americans haven’t heard of, and now a growing campaign to bring FATCA to heel is building in strength.
The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is an American law aimed at making foreign financial institutions reveal the account details of its US tax-paying clients if they have assets of more than $50,000.
– See more at: http://www.iexpats.com/fatca-rebels-battling-to-stop-tax-law-starting/#sthash.JWldo33v.dpuf
…a growing number of organisations and politicians in America have realised that for other countries to implement the law, they are asking for information on their citizens holding accounts with US-based financial institutions.
Expat tax fears
Now, the Centre for Freedom and Prosperity (CF&P) has started a campaign to repeal FATCA because the law infringes the constitutional rights of Americans oversteps Congressional powers.
The group also claims that FATCA punishes Americans living and working overseas and the act will eventually lead to higher taxes and, possibly, international taxation.
The high costs of setting up FATCA on American businesses are also criticised, an issue flagged by financial institutions around the world.
A CF&P spokesman said: “While tax evasion is a valid concern at home and abroad, FATCA is the wrong way to address it.”
FATCA: US Empire outsourcing GLOBAL WRITS OF ASSISTANCE.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:
“WRIT OF ASSISTANCE,” in English and American colonial history, a general search warrant issued by superior provincial courts to assist the British government in enforcing trade and navigation laws. Such warrants authorized customhouse officers (with the assistance of a sheriff, justice of the peace, or constable) to search any house for smuggled goods without specifying either the house or the goods.
In common use since the reign of Charles II, the writs did not arouse controversy until a renewal attempt was made in 1761. Despite an eloquent attack on their constitutionality by James Otis, representing Boston merchants, the writs were continued after confirmation of their legality had been received from England in 1762. When similar warrants were expressly reauthorized by the Townshend Acts (1767), they were challenged for five years in every superior court in the 13 colonies and refused outright in 8 of them.
Thus, writs of assistance became a MAJOR COLONIAL GRIEVANCE in the pre-Revolutionary period.”
What would America’s founders have to say about this?
I sent out emails to harper , flaherty and shoom and my MP… Shoom replied out of office until July 2..No reply from Harper. and email from flaherty returned as not good email address..I may have typed incorrectly or copied the email address I got from one of the commentors in Brock…I also sent same to my MP..
When the latest on FATCA came out
I sent my MP an email that I want to see him when he comes to my town to discuss this. Within the hour he sent back to me this from his blackberry.
“Thank you for this. I will look into this issue.
It is important. All the best,”
at least I get a response.
I am relinquishing July 15th in Toronto….became a Canadian in 1993
I will be checking my papers over again…Can you download the forms rather than copy them? I want to type my answers ..My handwriting is not that great.
I complied with filing my US taxes up to the year I became a Canadian…should I bring that last tax file?
I didn’t work long in the USA as I came up when I was 21…I have tiny social security which I refuse to claim…I was thinking I would love to see it go to homeless Vets. I guess it would be silly to say this in the counsel.
I sent out an e-mail to Flaherty, Shoom, PM, my MP, my parents MP and Gail Shea, Minister of Canadian Revenue. I requested that they confirm or deny what Competent Authority told me the other day.
Good work. Thanks, Marie!
Just received this from Mr. Shoom moments ago.
Your questions relate to the substance of the agreement under negotiation with the U.S. Consequently, the answer would depend on the outcome of the negotiations. The Government does not comment on the substance of negotiations that are underway.
If an agreement is reached, it would be made public.
“…the answer would depend on the outcome of the negotiations. The Government does not comment on the substance of negotiations that are underway.
If an agreement is reached, it would be made public….”
How very convenient for the Ministry of Finance and the Conservatives to assert – and entirely abusive and contemptuous of our rights as Canadian citizenry.
I hope this finishes off the Conservatives – as those affected who don’t know about this yet will be horrified when they become aware of what Harper and his minions were prepared to do without any public discussion or debate from those whose rights, security of the person, data and privacy will be under attack by the US.
What other Canadian prime minister can boast that they betrayed over 1 million of their fellow Canadian citizens and permanent residents to a foreign government and laid bare their legal and hard earned and already CRA taxed, registered or reported Canadian assets?
What a legacy.
What a travesty.
And the other parties who do not come forward even as they know that this is in progress are collaborators.