FATCA and Canada
Note: For list of Media and Blog Articles (not including those of the Isaac Brock Society) regarding the Canadian IGA FATCA lawsuit (Hillis and Deegan v. Attorney General of Canada), go to this page. (Isaac Brock Society posts and threads on the lawsuit are contained in the FATCA and Canada list below.)
Posts and Threads on the Isaac Brock Society Website
July 2019
June 2019
07: Lawsuits involving FATCA and aspects related to U.S. citizenship-based taxation
May 2019
18: More Recent Anti-U.S. FATCA/CBT Activity in France, Netherlands, and Canada by Government Officials
January 2019
29: Ottawa Brock Lunch – Saturday 9 February (4)
23: THE 2019 JANUARY 28-FEBRUARY 1 ADCS CANADIAN FATCA IGA TRIAL IN FEDERAL COURT HAS ENDED — “A Treaty does NOT make a CHARTER-FREE zone” — You can expect a costly APPEAL of the Federal Court decision (in June?) no matter who wins (742)
11: Supporters of @ADCSovereignty #FATCA lawsuit might be interested in @RunnymedeSoc Law and Freedom Conference – Jan. 12/19
December 2018
17: Read the Submissions to the Canadian Federal Court for the January 28 ADCS Trial
November 2018
October 2018
22: Brock project: How would the absence of the “savings clause” in the Canada US tax treaty change the tax treatment of “US citizens” in Canada? (81)
05: CANADIAN FATCA IGA LAWSUIT UPDATE: October 3, 2018 Plaintiffs’ Memorandum of Argument Has Been Submitted to Canada’s Federal Court
September 2018
27: Video from Toronto Meeting with Solomon Yue August 16, 2018
August 2018
19: Speculate on the percentage (85%? 5%?) of Canadian citizen-residents, deemed by U.S. to be U.S. citizens — who do not have, accept, or want, any meaningful relationship with the U.S.? (93)
18: Former Hamilton school superintendent pleads guilty to forging documents to get his children U.S. citizenship (44)
15: Brock project: Comparing the comments on the French version of the @LizT1 @USTransitionTax article to the comments on the English version
14: More about the @USTransitionTax issue from @LizT1: Finance Minister Morneau responds (sort of)
13: Another article by @LizT1 about the @USTransitionTax – Just when you thought it couldn’t get worse!
10: Reminder – Solomon Yue Visits Toronto
July 2018
27: Two Programs with Solomon Yue in Toronto August 12 & August 16, 2018
01: U.S., U.K., Canada, Australia and Netherlands form international tax enforcement group
May 2018
April 2018
28: Be on the Lookout! Bubblebustin to be on CBC The National- on the #TransitionTax
11: Canadian FATCA IGA Litigation Update: Court has fixed Monday January 28, 2019 as trial
March 2018
30: If you want to be a Shareholder in our Canadian Business then you must Renounce U.S. Citizenship
22: March 22, 2018 Canadian FATCA IGA litigation in Federal Court update: New timetable
02: Canadians’ Confidential Tax Info to be Shared with Police in Other Countries
January 2018
08: January 8, 2018 Canadian FATCA IGA Legislation Litigation Update
December 2017
07: December 7, 2017 Canadian FATCA IGA Legislation Litigation Update
October 2017
24: October 24, 2017 Canadian and United States (RO) FATCA IGA/FATCA Litigation Update
22: Ottawa Brock Lunch – Saturday 18 November
06: Dual Filer Status- How to Live & Invest in Canada as a US dual filer -Courtenay BC Oct 12
01: October 1 2017 Canadian FATCA IGA Legislation Litigation Update
September 2017
12: Canada’s tax on being American! Why not!
August 2017
21: Dewees 3: Lessons about the “Oh My God Moment” and dealing with the problems of U.S. citizenship
15: Dewees 2: Why did he participate in the 2009 #OVDP Horror Show?
July 2017
10: Khadr apology and settlement about violation of Charter rights, Trudeau says
June 2017
18: #FATCA and the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
02: Seeking a Few Additional Witnesses Willing to File Affidavit for Canadian FATCA IGA Lawsuit
May 2017
22: May 23, 2017- Vancouver -Solving U.S.Citizenship Problems
13: May 13, 2017 Canadian Federal Court FATCA IGA lawsuit update: Motion for Summary Trial now submitted
March 2017
23: Information Session – Solving U.S. Citizenship Problems with John Richardson
February 2017
12: The Beyond the Border Action Plan & the U.S. National Defense Act-A Disaster Waiting to Happen?
11: CDN with @dualcitizenship spends $3000 per year to make retirement planning more difficult
02: FEBRUARY 2 2017 UPDATE ON CANADIAN FATCA IGA LAWSUIT
January 2017
30: Dear PM Trudeau: Renegotiate FATCA IGA Now (reposted from MapleSandbox) (19)
25: Reminder: Solving US Citizenship Problems Toronto Sat. Jan 28
17: Seeking Canadian Witness for Canadian FATCA IGA Lawsuit Who Has Renounced and Paid U.S. “Exit Tax”
December 2016
15: DECEMBER 15, 2016 UPDATE ON CANADIAN FATCA IGA LAWSUIT
November 2016
05: November 2016 Status Report on ADCS-ADSC Canadian FATCA Lawsuit
October 2016
30: Reminder: Solving US Citizenship Problems Toronto Sat Nov 5, 2016
24: Ottawa Brock Lunch – Saturday 12 November
September 2016
30: Credit Union Update: YNCU Grows to $1.5B CAD in Assets
16: Vancouver Sun features our own Trish Moon
August 2016
13: Message from Plaintiff Ginny (Canadian FATCA-IGA Lawsuit)
July 2016
13: Is the State Department Shutting Down Expatriation Appointments in Canada?
11: Allison’s “Tina” Presentation and What do you think this guy means?
06: Ottawa Brock Lunch – Saturday 23 July
01: Canada pushes back against one foreign country’s jus sanguinis claims
01: Is JT Wearing His FATCA Flip Flops For Canada Day?
01: Barack Obama’s Address to the House of Commons, June 29, 2016: an Alternative Look
June 2016
29: What Canadian Witness Volunteers For Our FATCA IGA Lawsuit Tell Me
22: Canadian FATCA IGA Litigation Update: We have a new (third) plaintiff and still seek more Witnesses
20: Reminder: Solving U.S. Citizenship Problems – Toronto, Saturday, June 25, 2016
15: CANADIAN FATCA IGA LITIGATION: We are still seeking additional CANADIAN citizen witnesses
08: WHILE PARLIAMENT SLEEPS: TAX TREATY PRACTICE IN CANADA
08: JUNE 3, 2016 Canadian FATCA IGA Litigation Status Report Submitted to Case Management Judge
May 2016
13: September 30, 2016-Another Blow to Personal Privacy and Freedom of Movement
11: Creepy perverted ex named Sam stalks Americans who moved to Canada for love
04: How will YOU respond to the 2016 Canadian Census?
April 2016
27: FATCA Response From Deputy Finance Critic Phil McColeman of Brantford-Brant
26: Reply from the Finance Minister, the Honourable Bill Morneau…
15: PMJT Enjoys Yoga – Makes Sense That He Enjoys Flip-Flops, Too…
15: Dear Valued Customer, Indicators Found: Your Place of Birth is the United States
Baby Elle’s FATCA Letter (Lynne Swanson’s good work)…
01: What is REALLY in the U.S.-Canada Tax Treaty
March 2016
30: A Paper Detailing FATCA’s Costs to Canada
30: March 30, 2016: Toronto Star Publishes Today a Mr. Justin Trudeau Flip-Flop Article
29: March 29, 2016: Yet Another Article Comparing Pre- vs. Post-election Comments of Mr. Justin Trudeau
17: From Elizabeth Thompson a new post at iPolitics — Round Three : March 17, 2016 (evening edition)
16: John Richardson being interviewed by CBC’s The Exchange tonight
08: AICPA recommends that Treasury implement measures to reduce tax and reporting burdens associated with various cross-border deferred and tax-exempt savings accounts
February 2016
17: New instructions to book Canada appointments to relinquish or renounce US citizenship
11: Listen up, Canadian Liberal Government — *The Truth About FATCA* — Jim Jatras
10: John Richardson on CTV “Power Play” with Don Martin today
04: Getting Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms Right
02: NDP Revenue Critic, Pierre-Luc Dusseault, Writes to Minister of Revenue
January 2016
31: Discussion at @Canada2020 on Canada Foreign Policy of interest in @ADCSovereignty #FATCA lawsuit
28: How the government will argue Charter S. 1 against the @ADCSovereignty Charter lawsuit
22: Bravo MP Pierre-Luc Dusseault for keeping the pressure up on FATCA!
19: Tune Into CBC “All in a Day” at 4:45 EST pm today – John Richardson interview (92)
19: Uncle Sam Wants…Who? at UBC Law This Week – Allison Christians, McGill University, Faculty of Law
December 2015
15: Fatca Forum Exactly 3 Years Ago Today! How Far We Have Come!!
14: We need Witnesses for Canadian Charter Trial willing to file affidavits and go public
05: Letter to my bank manager: What do Brockers think?
November 2015
20: Allison Christian Interview – Lessening the hardship inflicted by FATCA
10: The Younger Trudeau tells off Prime Minister Harper in debate: Bravo!
09: Solving U.S. Citizenship Poblems – University of Guelph, Monday, November 16, 2015
09: Our Sociopathic Society V: Government invasion of the castle
06: Our Sociopathic Society IV: King Justin’s first sociopathic act
04: Information Session – Toronto, Sunday, November 8, 2015 – POSTPONED
October 2015
Posts and Threads on the last Canadian election, go to Canada Election 19 Oct 2015 – Resources
30: Elizabeth May: Fixing What Harper Broke: a to-do list for the incoming government
24: Liberal Party Position on U.S. Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)
18: October 19 is Election Day in Canada
15: Louise Arbour, “My children and I are caught in a useless bureaucratic nightmare”
13: Call for Letters to Our New Prime Minister
13: Letter of Nathan Cullen, NDP Critic for Finance, to Ministers of Finance and Revenue
11: Canadian expats out of country more than 5 years can still vote
03: Submit a tip to the Canadian Press on an issue of national interest?
02: Last chance for the NDP to garner our votes…
September 2015
30: Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen denied injunction: WE NOW BEGIN ROUND TWO OF A LONG FIGHT
30: U.S. IRS and Mexican SAT begin sharing info on bank accounts
24: If we don’t ask (the Conservative government), we don’t get. Today, one Brocker got! (
23: Important: NDP has stepped up to the plate with another letter to the Minister (updated)…
22: Until the government acknowledges it’s seen the light, please continue to make them feel the heat
16: Part I: Justice Martineau provides @ADCSovereignty the only thing worse than a root canal
16: Back to the drawing board…
09: Green Party Platform includes their pledge to repeal FATCA in Canada
August 2015
26: Which will come first: A decision in the FATCA legal challenge or the first exchange of info?
Reminder: Toronto Info Session on Solving US Citizenship Problems-Aug 30, 2015
25: An Interesting Analysis of an Analysis: John Richardson on Roy Berg on the Summary Trial
24: Our Tee-Shirts are Available! Great Work Native Canadian!
18: With such an amazing group, it’s simply NOT possible to NOT succeed! Thanks from @ADCSovereignty
13: Canadian FATCA Trial — *Tweet by Tweet* account of proceedings for the U.S. Library of Congress
10: More US Hypocrisy re Canadian RDSP (cont.) / Comments requested to be received September 15, 2015
05: UPDATES — From @ADCSovereignty #FATCA lawsuit – thoughts on day 1, 2 and post-trial dates(and more)…
July 2015
29: Reminder – Solving US Citizenship Problems – Vancouver
18: “The Shot Heard Round The World” Live from ThatChannel.com
11: Tricia Moon, your comment at the *Jack Townsend blog* is heart-felt and brilliant – THANK YOU!
08: Canadian Federal Election: It’s Time to Throw the People Who Betrayed Us Out of Office
07: Message in a bottle 2: Democracy, the Appointment of Judges and the Canadian Charter of Rights
June 2015
24: Help Me Keep My April 5 Promise Revisited-We Will Never Forget the IGA Betrayal by the CONs
12: It’s official – second class citizenship goes into effect
May 2015
08: Should proof of non-U.S. citizenship be an absolute condition for accepting public office in Canada?
04: U.S. citizenship taxation burdens Canada’s sovereignty by imposing U.S. taxes on Canadian residents
01: Congratulations to ALL Donors to the #FATCA Canada lawsuit – Looking forward to August 4/15
April 2015
22: 2015 Canadian Budget Introduces the “Common Reporting Standard”
16: We Delivered! Monumental Submission to Senate Finance Committee! #Fight CBT (42)
15: Reminder: “2015: Solving U.S. Citizenship Problems: Have You Received a FATCA Letter?” London ON
07: Video Portion of Senate Finance Committee Submission Ready!
06: WANTED – Ginny and Gwenny – Runaway Tax Slaves!
01: Renouncing US citizenship? How the S. 877A “Exit Tax” may apply to your Canadian assets – 14 Parts
March 2015
20: Reminder: “Have You Received a #FATCA Letter?” Hamilton ON March 26
12: Harper government accepts national origin discrimination for US Persons, but not for meat
07: Financial Post hits a new low in FATCA reporting
04: Terminating a Green Card (Abandonment of Lawful Permanent Resident Status)
February 2015
25: Barrie McKenna reports on Canadian Direct Financial’s milestone FATCA announcement
17: ADCS-ADSC LITIGATION UPDATES: Key Actions, Milestones and Timeline Estimates
13: Volunteers required for research project on Canada – USA dual citizens (current and former)
06: Congratulations to @ADCSovereignty lawyer, Joe Arvay, on today’s Supreme Court of Canada Decision
04: Will Canada turn a blind eye to the IGA’s “faux reciprocity”? (39)
January 2015
29: Professor Allison Christians posts “Responses to Questions on Canada’s Adoption of FATCA IGA”
27: Are strata corporations the next target of Canadian banks’ FATCA zeal?
2014
Isaac Brock Society Posts on FATCA and Canada – 2014 – at this link.
Pre-2014 – Lists are in preparation
You can also search for articles using the “Archives” button (on the menu at top of main page) for a list of all articles in reverse chronological order.
This also;
https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/clntSmmrySrch
https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/clntSmmrySrch
12-Month Lobbying Activity Search Results
Search Criteria
With all of the words: fatca
Try search using other key words or phrases like ” Intergovernmental Agreement “
https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/advSrch Advanced Registry Search Results
Search Criteria
Keyword – with all the words: intergovernmental agreement established between the USA and Canada
https://lobbycanada.gc.ca/app/secure/ocl/lrs/do/advSrch
Advanced Registry Search Results
Search Criteria
Keyword – with all the words: FATCA
http://www.internationalinvestment.net/regions/canada-commissioner-warns-of-tax-law-conflict-with-fatca/
Canada commissioner warns of tax law conflict with FATCA
By: Jonathan Boyd | 18 Apr 2016
Any francophones in Canada who can see if they can engage with “Frederic Lefebvre, who represents in the French National Assembly all French citizens living in the United States and Canada”, re FATCA as he may be in Canada (as per; “while visiting cities throughout the U.S. and Canada, without doubt one of France’s largest overseas constituencies…..”)? He has publicly criticized FATCA in the past: http://www.frederic-lefebvre.org/tag/fatca/ .
“…….Meanwhile as a member of the National Assembly, he [Mr. Lefebvre] said he is pressing for changes in tax laws affecting French people living in the U.S., who, he said, are expressing their anxiety about the “FATCA” laws that have been put in place both in France and the U.S. to diminish tax fraud and money laundering.
……………..
With the election to be held in 2017, it’s a sure bet that he will be back in Atlanta soon while visiting cities throughout the U.S. and Canada, without doubt one of France’s largest overseas constituencies, pressing his vision of an activist France seeking to extend its influence throughout the world and encouraging its youth to become global citizens who retain their loyalties to their native land as did their 16th century predecessors.”………
http://www.globalatlanta.com/french-presidential-candidate-promotes-his-global-vision-in-atlanta-as-he-campaigns-in-canada-and-the-u-s/
http://lawsociety.ab.ca/law-society-today/articles/articles-list/2016/06/10/the-impact-of-the-american-foreign-account-tax-compliance-on-lawyers-trust-accounts
From the Law Society of Alberta, referring to FATCA and to FBAR;
” The Impact of the American Foreign Account Tax Compliance on Lawyers’ Trust Accounts
By Jennifer Freund, Policy Counsel | Jun 10, 2016
Are Quebec’s new VRSPs http://www.rrq.gouv.qc.ca/en/travail/rver/Pages/rver.aspx considered a “taxable foreign trust” by the US ( “VRSPs are group savings plans offered by employers and administered by authorized administrators. They are governed by the Act respecting voluntary retirement savings plans”) ?
“Enterprises covered by the Act must offer a VRSP at the latest by:
31 December 2016, if they have 20 or more eligible employees on 30 June 2016
31 December 2017, if they have 10 to 19 eligible employees on 30 June 2017
the date determined by the government, which cannot be prior to 1 January 2018, if they have 5 to 9 eligible employees.”
Will the US require taxableUSP participants in Quebec to file a 3520/A?
Registration in the VRSP workplace pension savings plans are to be automatic – with the option to opt out afterwards ( http://www.rrq.gouv.qc.ca/en/retraite/rver/Pages/travailleur_rver.aspx ) – so, If the 3520/A is required, then any Canadians in Quebec who also have the UStaxableperson burden will also automatically acquire a ‘taxable foreign trust’ reporting and US tax burden (and potential penalty jeopardy) as a result. As well as adding another ‘account’ to their FBAR reporting threshold.
Will it enjoy the same Canada/US tax treaty status as the RRSP? (only recently considered to be exempted automatically from filing Form 8891).
Will the VRSP be considered a PFIC?
Are Quebec’s VRSP plans a “FFI” with a FATCA reporting requirement? Will voluntary workplace pension plans in Quebec who are to automatically enrol ALL workers have to sift through them for US indicia?
This is new and interesting from a CON MP re FATCA:
Budget Implementation Act, 2016, No. 1
Government Orders
June 7th, 2016 / 4 p.m.
Conservative
Dan Albas Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC
Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to be here with all members of Parliament.
It is an honour for me to rise on behalf of the citizens of Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola.
Today I will focus on Bill C-15.
The title of the bill is an act to implement certain provisions of the budget tabled in Parliament on March 22, 2016 and other measures.
There are a number of items in the bill. Again, previous members have pointed out that the budget implementation act, like most budget implementation acts, tries to amend multiple different bills, and there are 35 different pieces of legislation in the bill………
……………..
………….Lastly, in the budget document there was some talk about credit unions, particularly when it came to international FATCA rules. FATCA was a big issue in the last Parliament. However, more or less, Canadian institutions, all shapes and sizes, have been able to follow up with it. Now the government is talking with other governments about offshore tax evasion, bringing international FATCA regulations, a different regime, to Canada, whether a small institution has sufficient foreign nationals investing their money and a large percentage is not.
I am afraid we will end up with an administratively burdensome system, one that does not actually reflect the needs. There is a very small credit union in Summerland. It has a very small staff and is compliant in all things, but a proper risk assessment should be taken when we talk about these international FATCA rules……..
https://openparliament.ca/debates/2016/6/7/dan-albas-2/
http://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-57/fatca-compliance-letter-880010/
“Hmm, so yesterday I got a letter from the bank (a Canadian bank) asking me if I’m a US person for tax purposes…..”
Expat, in Alberta ?
July 2016
We should examine this in terms of Canadian taxpayer burden to implement FATCA and the CRS:
Call for comments;
http://www.fin.gc.ca/n16/16-093-eng.asp
Department of Finance Consults on Draft Tax Legislative Proposals
July 29, 2016 – Ottawa, Ontario – Department of Finance Canada
The 2016 Budget, entitled Growing the Middle Class, announced a number of important tax changes that will help promote greater tax fairness, and generally improve the integrity of Canada’s tax system. These changes will help support the objective of an economy that works for everyone, including middle-class Canadians. The Department of Finance is today releasing for consultation draft legislative proposals that would implement certain measures from the 2016 Budget.
These include proposals, as modified in some cases to take into account consultations and deliberations since the tabling of Budget 2016, relating to:
……….
Country-by-Country Reporting;
The Common Reporting Standard Penalty and Consequential Amendments;”
……………
These measures, as well as other Budget 2016 measures, may be included in a bill to be tabled in Parliament following the consultation period.
Interested parties are invited to provide comments on the draft legislative proposals by September 27, 2016. Please send your comments to fin.legislation-taxation-legislation-taxation.fin@canada.ca or to:
Tax Policy Branch
Department of Finance
90 Elgin Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0G5
from Maple Sandbox, see;
“The FATCA Hunt Is On in Canada
Posted on August 10, 2016 by Lynne Swanson
Keith Redmond is reporting on Facebook that BMO has sent this FATCA letter to Canadian businesses. As Keith posted, this is truly alarming.”
http://maplesandbox.ca/2016/the-fatca-hunt-is-on-in-canada/
http://maplesandbox.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/BMO-Letter-Page-1.jpg
‘OPINION: Canada complicit in an invasion of its sovereignty’
“The invasion of the U.S.’s FATCA(T) a fundamental illegality”
BY DAVID BULGER
Published on September 16, 2016 (The Guardian, Charlottetown, PEI, Canada)
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/Opinion/2016-09-16/article-4641875/The-invasion-of-the-U.S.s-FATCA(T)/1
Great opportunity to reach fellow Canadians, educate them about FATCA, and the ADCS lawsuit, link to IBS, etc. Already one commenter asked;
observer
September 16, 2016 – 10:36
“I understand there is a group opposing this US move. I wonder if anybody knows how they are coming along? Thanks.”
See also prior article;
The Guardian (Charlottetown, PEI)
Opinion
‘Land of the free? Really?’
“American expatriates, who have not renounced U.S. citizenship, Subject to dictates of IRS”
BY DAVID BULGER
Published on September 15, 2016
http://www.theguardian.pe.ca/Opinion/2016-09-15/article-4641226/Land-of-the-free%3F-Really%3F/1
ADCS lawsuit mentioned in Congressional Research report;
FATCA Reporting on U.S. Accounts: Recent
Legal Developments
Erika K. Lunder
Legislative Attorney
Carol A. Pettit
Legislative Attorney
September 7, 2016
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44616.pdf
@badger,
Thank you for bringing this paper to light.
I just quickly scanned through the section mentioning the ADCS lawsuit. It still amazes me that the point of view of the U.S government is that lack of an IGA would leave the FFIs still on the hook as if U.S. law is completely relevant outside its jurisdiction. Puts FFI’s in other countries afoul of domestic law. Of course, they finally “get” why the suit might be important beyond the mere mechanism of FATCA and the IGA’s
Hello…, not just expatriates, how about the governments? Governments have been voicing discontent at the lack of reciprocity. Some governments begin to see what they actually signed. I remember someone quoting the French reaction -that it was not realized “this would affect French citizens.” Realizing the cost will be a burden to the other countries year after year after year. And even if there is any reciprocity, the other countries will not receive anywhere near what is given out. The security risks. The discrimination. Maybe governments could resist by joint efforts; certainly there must be some leverage that could have an effect if it involved a group of countries. The U.S. simply could not apply 30% to everybody; even the mighty US needs the other countries’ funds. Gawd, the whole thing is just so beyond reasonable…….
@Patricia – “It still amazes me that the point of view of the U.S government is that lack of an IGA would leave the FFIs still on the hook as if U.S. law is completely relevant outside its jurisdiction.”
Lack of an IGA would leave the FFIs subject to US withholding on all US source transactions, according to US law. Presumably negotiations to avoid this would ensue:
“One possible outcome of such a ruling might be for the United States and Canada to attempt to find a mechanism that would be consistent with both countries’ laws (e.g., amending the existing income tax treaty, which would require U.S. Senate approval).”
Scratching my head to understand that. If the Canadian court were to rule that reporting on USCs is illegal, how could a tax treaty make it legal?
Plus, of course, on the US side, Senate approval for any reciprocal agreement is extremely unlikely, as the author of this report is clearly aware which is why it’s mentioned.
“The U.S. simply could not apply 30% to everybody; even the mighty US needs the other countries’ funds.”
Indeed. And can’t afford to risk damaging Canada’s economy, with all the repercussions.
H.R.3078 (mentioned in the report) is interesting.
Doomed, though. Or therefore.
@iota
Thanks, I understand that without an IGA the banks are left holding the bag. At least in Canada, the banks would then be breaking the law by releasing information and the net result would be lawsuits etc. IOW, it would force the government to take new action, presumably something that would at least protect those who are CDN citizens from being subject to reporting….
That quote is from the article, not my words. I presume they mean an adjustment in what they would be seeking to legitimize via the Treaty. The POV of the CDN govt/US govt IS ALREADY that the IGA is rooted in the treaty and thus, legal. That is debatable. As Allison Christians said so forcefully and clearly back on Dec 15, 2012, there is a tax treaty override going on here. If the actions were truly rooted in the Treaty there would be no need for anything else. The main issues seem to be on the US side of the coin and of course, they will resist to the maximum, any examination of the validity of FATCA, Treasury negotiating the IGAs etc. But this is where the main difficulty is and glossing over that does not erase the issue. If the Treaty stood alone, no need for IGA. Since clearly that is not the case, the problem is the IGAs and traced back from there (Treasury negotiation, Senate approval etc). And somewhere in that process, addressing the one-sidedness of all the reporting, paying for the costs, penalties etc. Where are the penalties on the US? What about the 30% business-that was NOT negotiated but merely thrust upon nations who are allies. The US has no friends, at least not after this charade……….
The Avi-Yonah paper on taxation and human rights, which badger found and posted about in another thread, suggests:
“…an enhancement of due diligence procedures through the elaboration of a list of subjective and objective “red flag indicators” as provided under the AML. That list would facilitate the detection of those accounts that present a high risk of tax evasion. Only once the likelihood of tax evasion has been assessed, FFIs would be required to report those accounts.”
The idea being that if the reporting requirements were proportionate to the stated aim (catching tax evaders), there would be less risk of conflict with human rights.
It would still be a fishing expedition though.
@iota,
Sounds better anyways, no time to read right now so appreciate that excerpt.
If the IGA in Canada were struck down, I think we would have to push, press, insist, that Canadian citizens resident in Canada could not have their information turned over regardless. Canada should not settle for less. If the US wants to find people they can go at it the old way and abandon the fishing expedition.
I never managed to read through Cockfield’s NAFTA book; not sure where would find the information but he was pretty clear at the hearings in May 2014 that the FATCA IGA likely violated NAFTA. Of course if we get Trump….whooopss…….there goes NAFTA
@PM, “If the IGA in Canada were struck down, I think we would have to push, press, insist, that Canadian citizens resident in Canada”
The Tax Treaty defines US Citizen and it defines Canadian Citizen. The IGA however is murky in that regard sadly.
I keep going back to this is not a tax problem its a citizenship problem.
Under the Law of Canada, which should be the sole law governing persons within its borders, I do not believe that a Canadian Citizen can be anything other than a Canadian Citizen. “Dual” does NOT exist under US or Candian Law!!!!!!
We need a politician to start pointing out this obvious fact.
I wish we could get a Judge to declare that Ginny is a Canadian Citizen and not declare anything further. I believe that a Judge in Canada could render an opinion that Ginny is a Canadian Citizen but I also believe that same judeg could NOT declare Ginny a US Citizen!!
To be blunt, in my country a tax officer made such a decleration to me in person.
I think the IGAs could be valid for real bonafide US Citizens who entered Canada on a US Passport with a visa.
Ginny is a lawyer and I also believe she has perfected the philosophy in her mind as to what she is and what she is not. The next time you see or talk to her ask “Are you a US Citizen?” I am confident she will say NO and I believe that she is correct on her side of the border. But…if she crosses the river…..she is up the river without a paddle and that I think she knows.
@George,
I think the point might be, that if the IGA were struck down, it does not matter whether a Canadian citizen is defined there…?
I agree with you 100% that it is a citizenship problem and that any citizen residing in his/her land of citizenship is primarily of that country. Trying to get people to stop thinking/referring to themselves as “dual” will probably require a lot of re-education, which might be the only positive to come out of this big mess.
I would never DARE ask Ginny what her citizenship is because I would like my head to remain on my shoulders! LOL, seriously, though, the issue is partially one of changing the minds of everyone in Canada as there are generations of families that view themselves as “duals,” and there is this perception (as evidenced by idiots such as Keddy in the Parliament) that it’s not big deal, it’s all easy, just a matter to file a few forms, etc. This is a HUGE problem. Very few people understand what CBT in any foreign country means. And I think due to the fact that Canada has such a huge influx of US-ness, it may not be easy to get people to see that this will work very differently than they presume. So yes, some judges might clearly deem Ginny to be Canadian (only) and ones like Judge Martineau, who will claim she cannot put aside U.S., law (as sickening as that is).
I am not sure I understand what you mean by “To be blunt, in my country a tax officer made such a decleration to me in person.’ Do you mean he/she said you were only a citizen of the UK? Since you relinquished, I cannot imagine anyone (inc even the US) could claim you were anything else. Maybe I am not quite catching your idea….
While it would not be ideal, and quite possibly, also against the Charter, US citizens with permanent resident status in Canada are the only people the US should even trying to be claiming (given the savings clause in the Treaty, which Canada has agreed to). The Treaty does not say that the US has the right to tax its citizens who are also citizens of Canada. I wonder why no one has ever brought that up? The Hon. Sinclair Stevens was clear, during the FATCA Forum in Dec 2012 though, that the Charter extended to anyone who was physically in Canada so from some sides of the story, even those US citizens are supposed to be under the protection of Canada.
It is very nice to see you commenting again. We all missed you. 🙂