UPDATE SEPTEMBER 19, 2015: SEE ALSO DISCLAIMER AND LITIGATION UPDATES.
[This post, which began in May and having over 1000 revisions and 2000 comments, is being retired from service and updates. It lived through the success of reaching a total of $500,000 in donations from our kind, dear supporters who had little money to give, the hope and disappointment with the summary trial decision, and the certainty that we are now finally moving on to the Charter trial.]
CANADIAN CHARTER TRIAL UPDATE:
— We have instructed the Arvay team to prepare for the “Constitutional-Charter” trial. This means that our focus now, as it was in the beginning of our lawsuit, is on the Charter trial.
Unless there is a new expense in the future that we have not anticipated, the monies from your donations will be sufficient to take us through the “constitutional-charter” trial in Federal Court. However, to pay other legal bills we will need additional donations from our supporters, and a request for donations will appear on another post soon.
OUR LITIGATION HISTORY:
One year ago, on August 11, 2014, Litigator Joseph Arvay filed a FATCA IGA lawsuit in Canada Federal Court on behalf of Plaintiffs Ginny and Gwen, the Alliance for the Defence of Canadian Sovereignty (en français), and all peoples.
Because of a Government delay we initiated a “summary trial”, using a portion of the arguments, which offered the possibility of preventing private banking information from being turned over to the IRS before September 30, 2015. See Alliance’s Claims, our Alliance blog, and AUGUST 4-5 SUMMARY TRIAL FILINGS in LITIGATION UPDATES.
Did you know that Canada has “Hate Speech Squads”? Will our diatribes about the unfairness of the U.S. tax system be classified one day as “hate speech” too? Think I’m kidding?
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/08/17/canadian-police/
EmBee I met Kevin Barrett and Anthony Hall a few days before they spoke in Edmonton. Amazing discussion, fascinating speakers, strongly recommend making the effort to hear this presentation.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153551956188659&set=a.10150864930188659.476791.655683658&type=1&theater
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http://www.truthjihad.com/news/?p=13
@Stephen Kish, “No born-in-Canada person with a U.S. taint that I contacted was willing to be a plaintiff. The main reason was simple and expected: Unlike Ginny and Gwen, they refused to be personally liable for Government costs should we lose the lawsuit. ”
Thats a great lesson learned for a lawsuit in another jurisdiction.
Need a Court case in a country where loser pays is not an issue.
OR
Need someone with deep pockets to indemnify that type of perfect plaintiff against loss.
@ Sid
I heard the presentation in person too. I half-jokingly looked around the room and said to the person next to me, “I wonder if CSIS is here?” I didn’t know about “Hate Speech Squads” at that point. The government’s definition of “hate speech” can be expanded at any time. Might we all be directed to not hate the U.S. tax system in the future?
I just spoke with Native Canadian. He is on his way to a by registration only campaign meeting the Cons are having in London featuring head Conman Stephen Harper.
Go Native!
Go Native Canadian! Hope you get to confront Herr Harper in front of the cameras.
Bubblebustin mentions on another thread that ADCS was not able to find born in Canada plaintiffs.
This is correct. I spent much time (months) seeking potential plaintiffs for our ADCS Canadian lawsuit who were born in Canada and deemed to be U.S. citizens only by the U.S — and had no meaningful connection with U.S.
Just to add a bit more information: I volunteered to be a plaintiff including volunteering to be willing to pay the government’s costs should we lose–at least based on what such costs were estimated to be at that time. (The figure estimated at the time I won’t repeat but I will share that it was significantly less than the $37,000 number that surfaced just before the summary trial. I’ll admit that I’m not sure how I would have responded to the higher $37,000 number.)
Apparently I was not selected to be a plaintiff. I am not sure as to the reasons but I was not born in the US; however, I do reside in the US and hold dual US-Canadian citizenship. Both Canada and the US permit dual citizenship.
As a resident I do accept my obligation to pay US taxes. However, as a Canadian citizen I also assert my right to open a Canadian bank account and do not accept that the Canadian government has any more right to turn my data over to the US government than for any any other Canadian citizen. The argument presented at the summary trial–that the Canadian government may not assist the US gov’t in collecting tax for any tax period in which the taxpayer was a Canadian citizen–appears to apply just as much to me as to any other Canadian citizen, including but not limited to the two plaintiffs.
Mr. Gruber put my own situation best with regard to US taxes when describing his own personal situation: I comply with US tax law, but I do so voluntarily, and deny the right of the Canadian government to “assist” in that compliance.
I just want it clearly understood that I was willing to be a plaintiff had there been a need for non-US born plaintiffs. The $37,000 price tag would have been cause to pause and think but I certainly would have considered had I been offered the chance to serve as a plaintiff, which I was not.
Sid and EmBee, I see this (police department *Hate Speech Squads*) as part of the slippery slope that now is enabled in Canada — the march in legislation from Bill C-31 (making *US Persons in Canada* second-class to any others by virtue of place of birth of an individual or the individual’s parent(s) to Bill C-51, with definitions of *terrorist* to Bill C-24 to exile and banish certain of Canada’s citizens (even if born in Canada).
I, too, was interested and interviewed regarding being a plaintiff on behalf of my son, but it was determined too invasive for my son as he would most likely have been brought before court questioning by the defendant’s lawyers. That crossed my line in the sand — to protect my son from that. Sorry, I just couldn’t do it.
“By the way, I am a plaintiff in a U.S. FATCA lawsuit, but I do not suffer the same financial-costs-if we-lose risks as do Ginny and Gwen. Canada inflicts a special penalty on those who would dare, for the public good, contest an immoral Government law.”
Dr. Kish that is not true. You do suffer the same risks.
In my second case in US Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit, the court taxed costs against me. Oddly the US did not bill me for costs even though the court encouraged the US to do so.
That case appealed my second case in Court of Federal Claims, where Federal Claims violated the Federal Circuit’s ruling in my first case — and the Federal Circuit also conflicted with its own ruling in my first case there. Even the IRS disagrees with both Federal Circuit rulings, but the US didn’t petition for cert because the US was represented by the DOJ not by the IRS.
Anyway, US courts can make you suffer the same costs-if-you-lose, even when you contest the IRS’s violations of laws.
I just finished speaking with Native Canadian. At the Con rally, he spoke directly with Prime Conman Harper, one of the Con MPs that voted against the proposed amendments at Finance Committee, his own Con MP, a Con candidate and several Con supporters.
He will post details later, but Native did us proud.
Looking forward to NC’s report, Blaze. Thanks.
Wow, NativeCanadian — we look forward to hearing of your conversations with these people. Thanks from all of us — way to go!!
(and, thanks, Blaze for letting us know!)
Thank you Blaze and Native Canadian. Looking forward to details of the Con Rally. It seems so difficult to get answers on FATCA from any party but the Cons win the prize for secrecy and betrayal.
Native Canadian speaking directly with Conman Harper – I can’t wait to hearing about this!
Here we go…. I am home from the Harper visit to London..First off let me say I have wanted to be seen and heard and incredibly I was. When I got there, I met with the volunteers to confirm I had my invitation, as I waited for them to check on my invitation to make sure I was on the list, one of them asked me what I liked about Harper. I said I thought the income splitting was good and I liked the increase in child tax credit, however, he has taken those and given the savings to the USA. I was asked, WHAT?? I replied that due to fatca, the USA law Harper is helping a foreign country enforce in Canada against Canadians, that my family is at risk of losing thousands to the USA. Several volunteers wanted to hear my information so I let them hear is clearly, and concisely. They were clearly shocked that Harper would do this to Canadians. I told them all of our court case and reminded them ALL that in 2008, Harper abolished the court challenges act and we had to raise 500,000 dollars from our own pockets to fight a government with unlimited taxpayer money to fight us with. They agreed this was not right and yes, a dictatorship. With that done, I went into the campaign room which was set up for about 300 people. I was about the 20th person to go into the room. I stood in the middle and was right in front. I listened to other MP’s tell everyone how great the Cons were etc. for about 20 minutes including the ones who ignored my emails and requests for a meeting. Once they were all done, Mr. Harper and his wife came out. His wife sat right in front of where I was standing and appeared very happy to be there.I listened to Mr. Harper’s campaign pitch etc. and when he was finished, I waited until he came around shaking hands. When he came to me, I took his hand and said in a strong, clear voice ” GET FATCA OUT OF CANADA YOU’VE DESTROYED MY FAMILY” and his smile changed and he shook the next persons hand and seemed different. Here is a picture of me with Mr. Harper http://www.lfpress.com/2015/08/19/protesters-gather-outside-london-venue-where-prime-minister-stephen-harper-addressed-business-leaders It is Image #10 I was in a blue two tone shirt with horizontal stripes. I am not a small man, very tall and strong. After that, I went to have a little chat with Susan Truppe. I walked up to her and said.”hello sue, nice to meet you. Hey can I ask you a question”. She said “sure” I said ” I understand that when the omnibus bill C31 was approved, you said NO to every amendment that would protect Canadians from the tax overreach known as FATCA, can you tell me why?” She pondered for about 10 seconds apparently trying to recall bill C31 then said she remembered. She asked me for my phone number or a card. I said that apparently your phone doesn’t work as Lynne Swanson has been trying to get answers from you for over 6 months and you refuse to talk with her. She said to call her and walked away. I also confronted my own Mp’s and told them that this fight has just begun and that EVERY single Canadian will know about this and the court case. My MP said that she knew about the court case and I could kind of tell she agreed with me on the principles and human rights violations of it, but was forced to tow the party line. People, let me tell you one thing. I have NEVER confronted my own prime minister, but for god’s sake,What this has done to my wife and every other victim out there made me do it. This has got to stop. The lies and games will destroy my Canada. We ALL need to do our part!
For Image #10, you need to go to the bottom of the article and you will see a window of still images. Another note, I am a one finger typer and there is more to this story, however, I amazed the Conservative volunteers by saying that the 500,000 was raised by Canadians and a lot from people around the world. I also let them know that Canada has had it’s first human rights violation complaint filed with the UN because of the Conservative governments action regarding FATCA victims in Canada.
@NativeCanadian
Thank you x 1,000!
Native Canadian that took real guts. You are a true Brave in every sense!
Speaking of smiling, I realize that reading about your encounter was the first time I laughed today, NC! Thanks for that too!
@ Native Canadian
Good for you.
You did terrific, Native Canadian! Thank you.
@NativeCanadian
Congratulations on confronting Stephen Harper. We need to be present and stand up to this. You did that. Those of us who went to court on August 4th and 5th had a presence as well. I think the Justice may have heard us but we won’t know until he make a ruling. I doubt Conman Harper will hear anything but one never knows.
@ NativeCanadian
Thank you … you make my heart sing. You are noble and courageous, tall and strong. Your wife, your wonderful extended family and all of us Brocker/Boxers are proud of you.
NativeCanadian, thank you so very much for your strong, clear voice…
To see the smile wiped off that man’s face, I would love to have seen.
You were the man with the most integrity in that room of Conservatives and their supporters. I hope many there had their own OMG moment.
Thanks also for calling out Ms Truppe for her failure to call Lynne. It will be interesting to see if she now will take your call.
Good day, Native Canadian. And, once again, thanks. Many of us will re-wind your bravery as we sleep well tonight.
My best to you and your fine family.
Thank you Native Canadian for standing for Canada and for Freedom. Thank you for confronting the Brute who is Prime Minister. Hopefully he will not remain in that position after the election. I am so proud of your courage.