ABA Section of Taxation Recommends Those who Relinquished under INA Prior to June 17, 2008 be Treated as Non-Citizens http://t.co/IqGYsexuJt
— Patricia Moon (@nobledreamer16) March 4, 2015
In our view, sections 877A and 7701(a)(50) should not be considered to apply to individuals who had previously ceased to be citizens, for both nationality and federal tax purposes, prior to the date those provisions were enacted. In particular these sections should not apply to individuals who relinquished citizenship on or before June 3 2004, and whose noncitizen status was deliberately grandfathered under the 2004 Act, or to individuals who relinquished their citizenship in accordance with the requirements of former section 7701(n) after June 3, 2004 and prior to June 17, 2008.
The “extra’ here is since 7701(n) was repealed in 2008, the writer also suggests those who relinquished after June 3, 2004 and prior to June 17, 2008, should also be considered non-citizens. IOW, 877A only applies AFTER 2008! NOT RETROACTIVE!
The American Jobs Creation Act of 2004 ( the “2004 Act”), however, created a disparity between expatriation for nationality purposes and expatriation for tax purposes. Specifically the 2004 Act enacted new section 7701 (n), which provided for the first time that an individual who ceased to be a citizen in accordance with the INA would continue to be treated as a citzen for federal tax purposes, until a specified notice requirement was satisfied.. Section 7701(n) was effective only for individuals who expatriated after June 3, 2004 so individuals who had relinquished citizenship on or before that date were not affected, even where they had never provided any noticed described in that provision.
Similarly, section 7701(a)(50) generally provides that an individual shall not cease to be treated as a U.S. citizen before the date on which the individual’s citizenship is treated as relinquished under section 877A (g)(4). Pursuant to section 301(g) of the 2008 Act, these provisions are effective for any individual whose expatriation date (defined as the date on which the individual relinquished citizenship) is on or after June 17, 2008.We therefore recommend that Treasury and the Service issue guidance, in any form that they deem appropriate, confirming that individuals who reliquished citizenship under the INA are not subject to sections 877A and 7701(n)(50) and thus continue to be treated as noncitzens of the United States for federal tax purposes following the 2008 Act.
I don’t need to point out how important this development is! This news is HUGE!
For the whole letter to Commissioner Koskinen, please see Here
What happens if the aforementioned “Mr. Doe” entered the OVDP under the advice of an ABA member compliance Condor? Is the IRS going to give a refund?
Nothing doing. If it isn’t up to the date where the legislation was brought into effect, then NOTHING DOING!
Of course not. Did we ever hear of anyone in OVDP 2009, who got suckered into then screwed by the bait-and-switch debacle of FAQ 35, getting refunds?
I remember what Just Me said when I asked him how he felt about people getting better deals than he did as time went on. His reply was something along the lines that he was just happy that things were getting better and that was what was important.
I think this sounds good for Blaze but I can’t get past weird sentences like this …
However, here’s a sentence I completely understand …
Anyway it’s only a recommendation. We’ll have to see how the Treasury and the “Service” respond.
Yeah but it is a recommendation by the ABA Taxation Section. Completely establishment, not weirdos or radicals…….you know ;-P
@The_Animal
I don’t understand what you mean. That IS what they are saying. Anyone prior to June 17 2008.
With Canada being battered by this FATCA legislation which has been implemented by the United States and aided and abetted by the Obama-apologist Harper Progressive Conservative government whose focus appears to be turning Canada American, I’ve become rabidly Canadian. This year will be the first year that I intend to put up a Canadian flag; replete with angled flag pole bracket from Lowe’s Canada. I looked for one at Rona (a completely Canadian hardware store) and infuriatingly, a Canadian store isn’t patriotic enough to carry flagpole brackets and Canadian flags so that patriotic Canadians can actually fly OUR FLAG on Canada Day. As a child I didn’t realize how good Canada was to me, having been born and raised here all of my life…viewing our elephantine neighbour to the south with rose-colored glasses. As I have aged, married and raised a family here in the glorious and free home and native land that I have grown to respect, love and cherish, I feel more and more patriotic and am proud to be a Canadian; born and bred and realized just how much this country means to me.
I am sick and tired of the Canadians who are so bloody apathetic that they would care less about their country that they would allow Harper to continue his sell-out of Canada to American interests. My grandparents, uncles and mother were imprisoned during WWII in the Japanese-Canadian internment camps in the interior of Canada under the Red Ensign of Canada (flying the Red Ensign brings my family memories that it would rather forget), but Harper has made it such a deal that I WILL FLY the RED ENSIGN alongside the Canadian flag as a symbolic protest against the United States and what its apologist Stephen Harper is trying to do to MY Canada.
Another thing that royally makes my blood boil is when I see articles like this: Is Flying A Canadian Flag On Your House Too American? Are they f***ing kidding me? Are they reducing my love of my country to being as jingoistic as an American? I love my country and I don’t think many of my compatriots love it enough if they either disdain the flag or the ideals for which Canada’s flag stands for, because they really are ignoring Canada’s ideals when they ignore what Stephen Harper is doing to this country.
Other articles question why there aren’t more people flying the Canadian flag: >Why Don’t More Canadians Fly The Flag? The homeowner’s association in Belle-River, Ontario should be ashamed of themselves. If the Homeowner’s Association is so anti-Canadian that they won’t allow for Freedom of Expression enshrined under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, then I’ll be happy to drive them to the damned airport and they can each go back to where they bloody well came from.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hch8fnAcA54/VPap15s6eNI/AAAAAAAAF9c/7O6_vo_C59U/w1288-h248-no/PatrioticCanadian.jpg
Perhaps we should take a page from the Americans when it comes to our flag and state that anyone who flies a foreign flag on Canadian soil had damned well better couple it with an equally large Canadian flag. I don’t care what country they come from – I don’t give two sour owl shits about your creed, culture or religion, but when you are on Canadian soil, there’d better be a Canadian flag beside your country of origin’s rag or else, be prepared to explain yourself to a pissed-off Canadian. And that also goes for you jingoistic Americans too. Fly the Stars and Bars at your leisure, but if you live on Canadian soil, there’d damned well better be a Canadian Maple Leaf flag along-side it. Just this morning when I was going to drop my daughter off to daycare I saw some Yankee yokel with a US Flag emblazoned in the back window of his truck flaunting his American-ness along the streets of Surrey. No Canadian flag to be seen in his truck with BC plates. That was like a red flag to a bull. My only thought was: “You Yankee DUMBSHIT!!! You come up here to live in this country, earn a living in this great country of ours, partake of our free healthcare and our hospitality and you have the fucking guts to flaunt your American flag in my face with no nod to the country who took you in? You sorry-ass sonofabitch!!!”
Bill C288 protects my right to fly a CANADIAN flag anywhere at anytime on Canadian soil and I will take that as my God-given right and as my country’s anthem says: “God keep our Land; Glorious and Free”. Too many people have forgotten the phrase that goes along with it. “Oh, Canada, We stand on Guard for thee…” and I’ll be damned if I let Stephen Harper do any more to sell-out this great country of ours.
NOTE: I don’t specifically mention FATCA in here, but I know that’s yet another thing that Harper has done in selling out Canadians of American descent. I also know that I sounded rabidly Anti-American in my rant against that jack-ass I saw today. But you understand that if Canada gave you refuge, you don’t go waving an American flag without a nod to Canada’s flag. That’s just plain rude and as in my graphic. I’ll be happy to give that American driving on my streets a ride to the damned airport and send him back to his own damned country if he loves it that much.
@Animal
Hey Animal – Love it!!! More!!! Just forwarded it to my cousin in the States.
IMPORTANT – It concerns me when I see inaccurate postings that can possibly have a strong potential impact on a taxpayer’s course of action.
PLEASE NOTE – the paper referred to in this posting is NOT the position of the ABA, nor can it be construed the ABA recommends that those who relinquished under INA Prior to June 3, 2004 be treated as Non-Citizens.
It clearly states:
These Comments are submitted on behalf of the American Bar Association Section of Taxation and have not been approved by the House of Delegates or the Board of Governors of the American Bar Association. Accordingly, they should not be construed as representing the position of the American Bar Association.”
@The_Animal and everybody who lives in Canada.
I got a couple banners from the 2010 Olympics from this shop, and a Norwegian banner. They have everything. I do not work for them but their flagship office is in Vancouver, Animal. They would have whatever you need.
http://www.flagshop.com/
“Those who Relinquished under INA Prior to June 3, 2004 be Treated as Non-Citizens…” – Title Bar, I think the title should be amended then if they have specified it as such. prior to June 17, 2008. That was what caused confusion.
Thanks, kermitzii. I remember the Flag Shop when it was on W.4th in Kits near Burrard Bridge, just east of Burrard Street. I used to wander in there a lot. My wife remembers it from then too bc it was there till about mid 2000-2005, I think.
This recommendation will either (i) be completely ignored without meaningful comment/response by the IRS just as the ACA RBT proposal and home country exception proposal was ignored, or (ii) be actually considered and even adopted by the IRS/Treasury simply as a way to reduce the overall numbers of individuals who have standing to complain about CBT and FATCA, and then focus the IRS effort (re-double) on chasing those who were born in the USA and have not renounced/relinquished digging their collective US gov’t heals to resist any change of CBT to RBT.
Too bad the recommendation was not to throw CBT out because it is unfair and makes no sense and is unworkable.
@Virginia
Please excuse the error. I cannot possibly put the entire disclaimer in the title. It would seem that comments made on behalf of the ABA Section of Taxation could reasonably be stated as ABA Section of Taxation. The paper can be accessed at the ABA site: http://www.americanbar.org/groups/taxation.html – right sidebar under
“Tax Status of Certain Expatriates” March 2, 2015
@The_Animal
Thanks for clarifying. I see what you meant.
Thanks Patricia – this is a great clarification & very helpful
I became a Canadian citizen in 1992. There was no formal relinquishment, since I was told by the judge that I would then lose my US citizenship. Would this apply to me?
Tricia,
I’ve become rabidly anti-American (with the exception of my brothers and sisters-in-arms here at IBS) with this FATCA, I’m disgusted with the attitude of American homelanders and pissed off that my wife and family have to suffer this indignity by my country, because the PM that I helped to elect into office doesn’t have the spine God gave an amoeba. Forgive me if my rants seem a little off tangent. It’s me letting off some steam before I explode into a nuclear conflagration of expletives and sheer utter hatred towards the United States.
@The_Animal
I know and I quite understand.
The JSB Chorales are quite calming. !!
My thoughts exactly as Steve said.
On another note, I’m having 2nd thoughts about registering my son. BUT he has a passport that requires a visa to visit the USA. Does anyone know if they refuse the visa; give it no problem? I’ve been searching for YEARS about this for years and still haven’t been able to find an answer.
@Steve
Or it could be seen as part of a whole number of different actions/approaches eventually causing CBT to simply collapse under its own weight.
Tricia, I’ll go listen to some Bach then. 😀
following
@ the animal
I hear you about the vehicles with B.C. plates and an American flag on them….some days I really want to flip them the bird and tell them to go back to America then.
I have for over the past year had a Canadian flag flying upside down in my yard. it has led to some serious discussion with guests at the house and my wife is pissed at me for continuing to fly it in such a way.
I have told her the day fatca ceases to be a problem for Canada is the day I will fly it correctly and not before that day.
It has taken the ABA nearly seven years to notice and request clarification on this possible ‘absurd result’ in the US’s exit tax law. Anyone want to guess how long it will take the IRS to respond?
@the Animal @mettleman
You’ve inspired me to go out and get a Canadian flag for the front of my house! Instead of hanging it upside down though, I’ll replicate one of those STOP HARPER stop signs you see everywhere to accompany it.