The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
At what point does US bureaucratic foot-dragging (on processing of relinquishment or renunciation and issuance of CLN) become de facto violation of the basic human right to ditch a toxic citizenship? As weeks stretch into months, and months into a year (or multiples thereof), the state of affairs begins to reek of rot. Especially for the clearly abused residents of Canada.
Speculation: Canada and perhaps Israel are the flashpoints, the countries where the US can lose the most and lose it fastest. Perhaps the two “closest” countries in terms of muliple linkages, Canada first because of physical proximity and prevalence of English and balance of trade.
Word gets around. There isn’t much word now. All we really have is Sit tight?
Nothing can happen before the November election. Nothing. After that, Katy FBAR the door. While nothing is happening, there is almost nothing to report. Atossa is the exception. Imagine if a US response to skyrocketing exit applications were to spawn even greater difficulties in prying loose the lamprey –
Try these: (1) Increased fee to renounce. (2) Waiting times in years like persons trying to gain US citizenship. (3) Everyone “covered” forever by IRS reporting requirement regardless of citizenship loss.
Offer up your own horrible possibilities.
Just look at the flipflopping dog’s breakfast of patchwork legislation for extraterritorials over the past decade.
Two months to July 4. The only band I want to hear playing is called Dissolve!
@usxcanada;
I thought about that. It is possible. Perhaps only a very public stink will stop that from happening – at least in the short term.
All the more reason for the Canadian government (and other sovereign governments) to say ‘let my people go’!
After all, dual citizenship is only barely tolerated by many in Canada – including our current government. If that is the case, then they should support those who are trying to break out of the shackles of unwanted US citizenship.
As has been said here before – where does the Canadian government think the money is coming from for ‘compliance’ and IRS penalties? Out of Canadian pockets. And where are our so-called ‘foreign’ assets held? In Canada. And what country is affected when millions are too scared to save and invest in our own RRSPs, RESPs, TFSAs, RDSPs, etc? Canada. And if we can’t buy those investments, and save up for education, disability and old age, then what government’s taxes will have to go to support us? Canada’s.
It’s a no-brainer to me. We’re never going back to the US. We want to stay in Canada. We want our money that was legally earned here, – and taxed in Canada to stay here in Canada – with our families. That is all under threat if the IRS can just start seizing – or having Canadian banks seize our legal post-CRA taxed assets – with no recourse. And in the case of joint assets – seizing our non-US family assets. We can’t afford the crossborder specialists already – what would it cost to get back any witholdings from the IRS? And even if we could afford it, how long would that take?
You can’t tell me that given all the complexity, that there won’t be ‘errors’ and ‘unintended’ consequences. Except this time, it won’t just be the bank you have to deal with, it’ll be the bank, scared to death of losing the 30% witholding, with the IRS standing behind them. How could any individual possibly have recourse against that?
I haven’t seen any discussion of any avenue for recourse if there is any dispute about these with-holdings. If the computer systems they’re rushing to set up to identify US citizen accounts, make errors, who will bear the consequences? The individual account holder.
And will the Canadian government come to our rescue?
People who renounced or relinquished and have not received their CLNs within 3 months should e-mail or call the consulates or embassies handling their cases and ask about their statuses. E-mails are better because they put the inquiries on record. Bureaucrats don’t like being accused of not doing their jobs.
Look how fast Petros received his after making an inquiry.
@badger and @usx,
I agree, it appears Canadians are being held hostage by the IRS by threat of draconian penalties and by DOS in withholding or delay of CLNs.
Yes, far past time that the Canadian federal government steps in, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE (tell the US to let OUR PEOPLE go, if they wish) but I think that Ambassador Jacobson is absolutely not the appropriate person to deal with. He seems to have done nothing for US persons in Canada so far — other than to make himself look like a clown. If his position has any meaning at all, perhaps he could at least answer emails that he solicits or put something on his Ottawa Embassy blog showing that he is doing something on our behalf. Or, is he just another figurehead, dealing with tourism and trade? which are of course important. But, there are pressing issues that affect US persons in Canada that it appears he has, except for his silly “sit tight” statement, completely lost sight of. It appears to me he has no real power at all.
@Ben Franklin, you’re right — we will all need to do as Petros did, follow-up to find out why when time is dragging on in getting Canadian CLNs. Just why this is happening compared to the difference in time for other countries needs to be better explained.
The dragging of CLN feet may go on until after November of this year to quieten the fact that Canadian US persons are renouncing and relinquishing. Perhaps after the election, this will then (hopefully) become a bigger media and political issue. Wake up, USA. Stand by us, Canada.
US citizenship for ex-pats has become so carcinogenic that people are paying money to get rid of it.
Something has gone seriously wrong!
Any thoughts on this Messrs. Levin, Grassley and Rangel?
@all, What is the waiting time for renouncing in Toronto??
@saddened,
From the information we’ve gathered on the database, the timing there seems reasonable. There have been 4 Toronto renunciations, 2 of which required only one appointment and two of which required 2 appointments. There have been 7 relinquishments reported for Toronto, and of course one of these, Petros, has received his Certificate of Loss of Nationality, which took over a year from relinquishment appointment. No others in Canada have yet reported receiving their CLNs.
@calgary411, Thank you very much!! What the hell is the hold up with the CLN’s?? Do you know the longest wait time after the renounciation to get CLN?? I see that Petros took a year, has anyone waited longer than 1 year?? Something doesn’t sound right does it, if other countries are getting there’s in just a few months. Gosh, I hope in the next year they don’t make it harder to renounce or a longer wait time to get a appointment.. Can you imagine if was a 2-3 year wait.. for appointments.. OMG!!
@ Saddened. The waiting time to book an appointment in Toronto is quite reasonable, about 2 to 3 weeks, and seems to be holding steady at that since we started tracking these things in late 2011.
As for the CLN delay for Canadians as opposed to the rest of the world, I’m as baffled as everyone else about that.
saddened wrote, “What the hell is the hold up with the CLN’s??”
My theory is that the guy who was making the decisions about whether he was going to let me expatriate died at his desk at the State Department in Washington and nobody noticed for 365 days.
@Petros, That is a good one! And what is funny you are probably right! They just didn’t want to let you go!!
@Petros
Oh, the smell!
@Pacifica777, Thank you for the reply. It does seem really funny doesn’t it, the wait being so long.. Just another aggravation!
Ben Franklin wrote: “Look how fast Petros received his after making an inquiry.” I asked only after a year. Asking any earlier probably would have made no difference, as the approval date on the CLN was 29 February, only a month and a half before I asked.
@Petros:
Thank you for the clarification. Who knows how much longer your CLN would have sat on someone’s desk had you not asked. Maybe another year for all we know.
The point I was making is that “sitting tight” waiting for CLNs could take forever. Its not in Uncle Sammy’s interests to issue them, hence so many obstacles.
Inquiring costs nothing and can’t hurt anything.
A recent relinquishment applicant at a Canadian consulate was told the wait for a CLN should be 2-6 months. The vice-consul at the interview said the problem is in Washington, not in the consulate, and that applications go straight from the consulate to DC they don’t go through the embassy in Ottawa so the embassy isn’t the bottleneck (he said the consulate tries to expedite these applications). He made a comment to the effect that Washington is a big bureaucracy and hence is slow; you’ll hear the roughly same comment from regional or local offices about their national HQ in every government department in every country on the planet. And generally it’s true. Not that’s any excuse …
If you haven’t got your CLN after six months for sure, it’s time to start rattling some cages as to where is it and why. Particularly given the much faster turnaround folks seem to be getting in other countries.
If this doesn’t clear up quickly, maybe it’s time to start bombarding Gary Doer, the Canadian Ambassador in Washington, with demands that he start raising a stink with the State Department about what is going on. You could also bombard John Baird our Foreign Affairs Minister but he’ll ignore you, at least so far he’s ignored all my emails. Flaherty is the only government minister who’s replied to anything I’ve sent. You can also try your MP or the opposition critics (Paul Dewar for the NDP and Dominic LeBlanc for the Liberals, last time I checked). Maybe Margaret Wente at the Globe and Mail might be interested? An article or column in a national newspaper might light a bonfire under Jacobsen’s butt …
I’ve received a short questionnaire for completion from the US Consulate in Edinburgh. I’ve been told it takes 4-6 weeks to get an appointment. For personal reasons I’m unable to renounce until the end of September, so have asked for an appointment at this time.
Hello, Scotgirl,
Congratulations on your planning and the start of the renunciation process. Thanks for the information that it will take 4 to 6 weeks to get your appointment after your contact. We’ll put that onto the database and hope that it will take you only one appointment to renounce when you do complete the appointment at the end of September. Glad to add Edinburgh. Keep up the letter writing on behalf of your (and everyone’s) Accidental American kids and thanks!
Keep in touch and good luck to you!
This is reply to my email to DOS
Dear Ms.
Regarding your CLN, no, there is no mechanism for tracking it. For your reference, it typically takes at least 6 months to completely process and send the loss of nationality documentation. The date of your loss of nationality, however, is the date you took the oath of renunciation, not the date the loss of nationality documentation is approved or the date it is sent to you.
Kind regards,
Christine P. Jackson
Citizens Services Specialist
Office of American Citizens Services
U.S. Department of State
@rivka88
If you had the two-visit renunciation, then the oath would have been taken on the second of the two, but there is a strong argument for taking the date of loss of nationality for tax purposes as being the first visit. Details here:
http://renunciationguide.com/FAQ.html#DateOfExpatriationAtFirstInterviewOrSecond
Michele Bachmann claims Swiss citizenship
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76072.html#ixzz1uNwcxnKC
We’ll be happy to add her to our Renunciation & Relinquishment of US Citizenship when and if she lives abroad and views US requirements from our lens.
As I mentioned on another thread, under reciprocity, Switzerland could demand access to information about all the financial holdings of Michelle Bachman, her husband, their children, value of their home, retirement savings, education savings plans, her Congressional Office budget, etc.
Does anyone know her position on FATCA/GATCA?
http://bachmann.house.gov/
Anyone from Minnesota?
Due to email volume, Representative Bachmann will only be able to answer emails from Minnesota’s 6th district. Please enter your zip code below for verification.
Duplicated from the “One More Free” thread:
itacaf
MAY 9, 2012 AT 11:59 PM
@Calgary411
I got a response from the Calgary Consulate about my CLN request.
“Thank you for your comment. Unfortunately, as we discussed at your interview, we remain unable to give you a precise timeline for completion of your loss of nationality case. As also discussed, recent experience shows that it is taking between six months and a year to complete the process. I do hope that it is completed more quickly than that, but it would be imprudent to make any guarantees that this will be the case. Your documentation is currently being considered by the Department of State in Washington. As soon as we become aware of their decision on your file we will contact you. After completion of the process, your date of loss of nationality should be retroactive to the date that you took your oath of renunciation.
Sincerely,
Consul
U.S. Consulate General Calgary”
Basically all I was looking for was that some action had already been taken. I specifically like this, “your date of loss of nationality should be retroactive to the date that you took your oath of renunciation”. That’s whats important to me.
calgary411
MAY 10, 2012 AT 5:53 PM
@itacaf,
Thanks for sharing the feedback you received from the US Consulate in Calgary. There certainly appears to be no standard of procedure from one Consulate to another; one Country to another; one Relinquishment vs Renunciation in timing for appointments, number of appointments or the time it takes to get a Certificate of Loss of Nationality.
Thanks again!