The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
@Rick. Good advice for all of us!! Thanks.
Just had a look at the updated chart.
To date we have news of six CLNs being issued. Only one so far from Canada, that’s Petros’ — took 11 months for it to be approved (a relinquishment). The other five are all from other countries, all renunciations, none of them took more than a couple of months for approval, and three of those were in 2012 so the difference isn’t just about an increased 2012 workload.
We have renunciation CLNs pending in Canada going back to November, six months ago. None of the non-Canadian (renunciation) CLNs took anything like that long to be approved. I admit, a relinquishment is probably more complicated in terms of review in Washington. But a renunciation should be a “slam dunk,” the only way it can be rebutted is if the consular officer thinks the applicant was mentally incapable or under duress to swear the renunciation oath, or if the US Passport Office discovers the applicant is still holding a valid US passport. Neither is remotely likely in the Canadian cases I’m aware of.
What gives, Department of State? Ambassador Jacobson? Secretary Clinton?
Just to elaborate on the workload issue — as I posted earlier today on the password site, we’ve learned that CLN documents submitted to a Canadian consulate go directly to Washington, they do NOT go through the embassy in Ottawa. The backlog/delay is in Washington and not in the consulates, according to my information. All CLNs have to be approved in Washington, including those from countries other than Canada. In the same office in Washington. Whatever workload issue there is in Washington should be affecting CLN approvals for applications from all countries, not just Canada.
schubert1975 –
Thanks for your two postings. It is becoming clear that Canada is receiving inferior treatment, and that there is wide discrepancy in practice among the consulate localities in Canada. This is a situation that we can hope will sooner or later attract the attention of Canadian media. Something weird seems to be going on. Not just bureaucratic weird, either.
Fundamental question: In terms of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, when does foot-dragging become ancillary to denial of the right to expatriate? Perhaps the presumptive land of the free is doing its best to preserve the land of the fee (with accounting and legal far more punitive than any tax).
Latest list of U.S. citizens who have renounced, 460 this quarter vs 499 the previous quarter, anyone who received their CLN last quarter name not appear on this list? I got my CLN on Aril 19th so I suspect my name won’t appear until next quarter.
https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2012/04/30/2012-10274/quarterly-publication-of-individuals-who-have-chosen-to-expatriate
@Rick. Thanks for the link. We don’t have actual names on the database. Those interested can check the list and, if they wish, report whether or not they “made it”.
It would make an interesting complaint to Ambassador Jacobson: Canadian duals are receiving inferior services from Washington – we are being prevented from completing renunciations. Actually, that would make a good story – dual Canadians being held hostage by the US and prevented from leaving. That kind of sound bite sticks – no matter if they denied it.
Would it make sense to start a letter writing campaign from those affected, cc’ing to the Canadian Ambassador to the US as well? It would seem to fit as a diplomatic issue. The Canadian feds aren’t in favour of dual citizenship anyway, so they might intervene.
@ badger and All
I have never gotten a response and see nothing regarding ‘US Persons in Canada’ on his blog or site, although he invites us to correspond with him. US Ambassador to Canada David Jacobson:
ottawainfo@state.gov
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The Role of an Ambassador — Ottawa, Canada, Embassy of the United States
http://canada.usembassy.gov/ambassador/the-role-of-an-ambassador.html
The Chief of Mission — with the title of Ambassador, Minister, or Chargé d’Affaires — and the Deputy Chief of Mission head the mission’s “country team” of U.S. Government personnel.
Responsibilities of Chiefs of Mission at post also include:
I don’t know — is the good Ambassador living up to his duties? Are ‘US Persons’ in Canada part of the constituents he is to serve?
I’m not on that renunciation list and I received my CLN at the beginning of March. I think it is just “covered expatriates” who are on the list.
Not to be outing people but there looks to be a Jay Lynne Fleming on the list which definately could be a resident of West Vancouver who owns Your Life Solutions Inc(A pretty sucessful self storage company in the Vancouver area). Would this happen to be an IBS member I know we have several from West Van and North Van who perhaps is waiting for a CLN.
@calgary411, I’m not sure if it is part of his duties, but even if it isn’t, would sending the letters to him, but making clear that it is also cc’d to his Canadian counterpart – and Harper, and Flaherty might get some notice – even if there is no reply? Renunciation rates alone are going to prove embarrassing, so maybe the US ambassador will pass on that it is in danger of becoming more glaringly public. Perhaps even using phrases like ‘Canadians held hostage by the US.’ ‘US stalls on recognizing sworn allegiance to Canada’ etc.’ ?
@calgary411;
re:
“Tell Us Your Stories!
The U.S. Embassy in Ottawa is inviting Americans to submit their stories of living in …… the Great White North. Whether it was…. decades living in …………., or anywhere else in Canada, we want you to share your experiences. E-mail us at ottawainfo@state.gov. We’ll share some of the best ones on our websites and our social media platforms!”
Will they post any shared “stories” of Americans living for “decades in” “the Great White North” as a naturalized Canadian, only to find that they’d been reclassified as a US taxpayer and prospective tax evader?
@badger
One thing that should be mentioned if you look at this lists they are over 50% women something that goes against the stereotypical homelander American grain of who renounced their citizenship and something FAWCO should be emphasizing big time.
Good idea, badger. We could each try to do this.
Canadian Ambassador to the USA Gary Doer
Wshdc.consul@international.gc.ca
Finance Minister James Flaherty
jim.flaherty@parl.gc.ca
Prime Minister Stephen Harper
pm@pm.gc.ca
Our Members of Parliament
http://www.parl.gc.ca/MembersOfParliament/MainMPsCompleteList.aspx
@rødgrød
We’ll look closely for you on the next quarter’s report too to try to figure out their rhyme and reason. Thanks.
@Tim, I hadn’t thought to analyze it by gender, but that could be an important point – backing up the observations that ACA had made about the issue of women renouncing – possibly because of pressure, or in support of non-US spouses who do not agree to disclose their joint accounts to the IRS.
The touching query linked to below just popped up in a search. What are the chances of this lost soul finding genuine succor at Brock rather than useless echoes in the censorious wilderness?
http://www.expatforum.com/expats/expat-tax/110971-canada-us-child-returning-canada.html#post776286
Thanks usxcanada. Well, I cannot answer her there (I had misread and first thought it was on the Brock forum), but if someone is still plugged into the Expat Forum,
Here is the reply I would give:
The reply to her first question,
NO.
and for her second question will send her to these links:
CRA Magazine article United States Tax Issues for individuals in Canada, which I think answers the question. And, will give a link to IRS U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad. I’ve also added Do I need to file Form 8938, “Statement of Specified Foreign Financial Assets”? as it doesn’t appear to be a link in the IRS information for US Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad.
Depending on further plans to live in the US, she may want to turn in her green card so I’ve added this (from Em):
and will invite her to read the thread of Diane, from which she may glean some information that applies to her situation, http://isaacbrocksociety.com/2012/05/02/she-didnt-know-the-united-states-still-thought-she-was-an-american/. I’ll also invite her to research the main Isaac Brock blog for further information.
I hope someone can answer her at the ExpatForum and this will be useful information for this US permanent resident to use in making her decision whether or not she will return to Canada, the place of her birth.
Do we know of anyone on Isaac Brock still allowed to comment on the Expat Forum?
Re the CLNs and renunciation statistics, see this excerpt embedded in the middle of this story:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-01/wealthy-americans-queue-to-give-up-passports-in-swiss-capital.html
…….”They receive a certificate within three months, telling them they are no longer American citizens and entitled to the services and protection of the U.S. government……..
….”The U.S. embassy in Bern declined to comment on renunciations. The U.S. State Department doesn’t disclose annual figures, said Elizabeth Finan a spokeswoman for the Washington- based department, adding that “on average” 1,100 people give up their citizenship each year. “…….
curious that three months to get CLN after renunciation switzerland and only 1 month in germany or scandinavia.
anyone have any real live experience with a swiss renunciation?
So what is the problem in Canada then?
sorry; what I mean is, why is the backlog for CLNs recognizing renunciations from those in Canada so behind? I know others have asked this before on these threads, but it is very vexing.
Perhaps Uncle Sam is particularly worried that the large majority of the estimated one million Canadians with US citizenship will renounce.
The more CLNs issued, the more people will talk to others about it. And once the cork comes out of the bottle, there is no way to put it back in.
Renunciation is a very sensitive issue for Sammy. It makes him look bad and interferes with his plans for grabbing more tribute.
This is why 1,788 (dead canaries) was such a headline grabber and is most likely the reason he is dragging out the CLN process for Canadians.
@FromTheWilderness;
Yes, those dead canaries do look really bad. After all, if it is so great to be a US citizen outside the US, then why would so many Canadian citizens and residents spend so much money and effort for a lengthy process to get rid of it? A democratic and prosperous country just next door, with health care, stability, and historic ties, and yet there are people lined up to have their ‘cancer’ removed before it kills them and their families through legalized extortion.
What response can they make other than to make it even more difficult – which would also look very bad, because it lends truth to what we are saying.
So, is this a situation where Canadians are being held hostage -via the IRS and witholding or delay of CLNs? It is far past the time that the Canadian federal government steps in, and speaks to Ambassador Jacobson very frankly – and make clear that the US cannot hold Canadians for ransom.