The up-to-date database resides in Part 2 (link at the bottom of this page).
Above is a link to data we are compiling on Relinquishments and Renunciations — a work in progress. This corresponds with the Consulate Report Directory (in sticky post below), tracking individual experiences for each Consulate, along with a timeline chart.
Note: We are using numbers instead of blog names for this public posting so there will be no compromise of private information. Your facts will help give a snapshot of relinquishment and renunciation activity and where that occurs.
Please submit information in the comments here (or someone can contact you privately). Thanks for all your help on this.
COMMENTS ARE CLOSED FOR Relinquishment and Renunciation Data (as reported on Isaac Brock), Part 1.
Part 2 is now open for your comments. Thank you.
@DavidM,
It often works better to type your comment in Word or even onto a “new email” then copy and paste into the Comment in Isaac Brock. I learned that after losing things I had typed — gremlins.
*@Em and others interested in receiving SS benefits in Canada
from the IRS website
Canadian & U.S. Tax Issues
Question: Are the Canada
Pension Plan and Canadian Old Age Security Benefits taxable?
If they are, please tell me where
they should be entered on Form 1040.
Answer:
Benefits paid under the Canada Pension Plan (CPP),
Quebec Pension Plan (QPP), and Old Age Security (OAS) program:
If the recipient is a
resident of the United States—
are taxable only in
the United States if the recipient is a resident of the United
States,
are treated as U.S.
social security benefits for U.S. tax purposes, and
are reported on Form
1040 (PDF), U.S. Individual Income Tax
Return or Form
1040A (PDF) on the line on which U.S. social security benefits
would be reported.
U.S. citizen or green card holder who is a resident of
Canada—
are taxable only in Canada.
However there is a clawback provision for person who contributed for less then 30 years
ranging from 10% at 30 years to 60% for less than 20 years contributions
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation, Roger. Wow, 30% witholding tax is quite a bit, when the benefits probably need to be declared as income and maybe taxed in the foreign country where they’re sent.
http://www.ssa.gov/international/Agreement_Pamphlets/canada.html
Totalization Agreement with Canada
SSA Publication No. 05-10198, January 2004, ICN 480199 [OMB Approval Number: 0960-0554 Expires 10/31/2013]
*@Cristophie,
Depending on the tax laws and/or tax treaty of or with the country where the retiree lives, he may be able to claim a foreign tax credit for the US withholding tax. Each case requires checking.
When we lived in Brazil in the 1970s I happened to go to the US consulate in Rio de Janeiro once on the day when SS retirement checks arrived. In those days there was no direct deposit and those receiving benefits had to go personally to the consulate to pick up their SS checks. The checks were not sent through the mail. That day there was a long line of Brazilians who had lived and worked in the US who there to pick up their SS checks.
*This is awesome! So, my $511 Social Security might get slashed 60% to 204.4, but I might only get 75 cents for every dollar, bringing it down to $153.3. Add a 30% tax to that, brings it down to 107.31. Minus the $20 wiring fee will make it 87.31. Then, the exchange rate will reduce it to 80.33 CHF.
Without inflation, this will be enough to buy 2 family meals at Mac Donald’s per month! At least I didn’t serve in the US military for nothing, assuming that I bother collecting the pocket change. 🙂
@ SwissPinoy
That’s kind of how I interpret it too although we haven’t really delved into this particular dilemma yet so I’m not sure. We just want our retirement years to be as pleasant as possible and if we have ANY contact with the USA (we won’t even travel there) it will NOT be pleasant. (Sorry Whoa, that’s how we feel.) Besides they say SS is bankrupt anyway. Clinton apparently transferred the SS stash to general revenue — “Poof! … And it’s gone.” (see video below) — in an effort to make the US financial situation appear to be all tickety-boo.
http://dailybail.com/home/south-park-bailout-episode-andits-gone.html
@ All
Sorry, I inadvertently posted a rather annoying version of that South Park episode. I tried to delete it but failed. In the original form it really is hilarious but I couldn’t find the entire segment, just shortened versions.
*@Em, I still thought it was funny 🙂
@Christophe
Renouncing does not disqualify you from receiving US Social Security retirement benefits. The amount you receive depends on a number of factors, including how long you worked in the US, where you live now and whether that country has an agreement with the US.
In Australia, a condition of receiving an Australian government “retirement” pension is that you must apply for US Social Security benefits at the same time if you were born in the US. I have my CLN and was totally surprised to discover that I still qualify. I only worked in the US for 2 years before moving overseas but due to a Social Security agreement between the two countries I have been given credit for my work in Australia. I was expecting to sever all ties with the US after receiving my CLN and now I am forced to take their money! How ironic…….
Here is where you can find more info on international agreements in the Social Security website:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/international/agreement_descriptions.html
This is an easier version to watch and again sorry for that other post. Maybe Petros can get that URL out and replace it with this one. Lesson learned — I will proof watch videos before posting from here on.
http://dailybail.com/home/south-park-bailout-episode-andits-gone.html
*My CLN finally arrived in the mail!
I relinquished in Toronto Dec. 19, 2011, it was approved Oct. 17, 2012, date of relinquishment is Dec. 31, 1990. Certificate is signed by one of the Toronto consuls and dated May 8, 2012. The letter accompanying it, was dated Nov. 16, 3 days after I emailed an inquiry regarding my CLN’s status.
Thanks to all for the help along the way.
Hi, iamquincy.
I’m glad you made that query on the status of your CLN — seems that sometimes works the magic. It’s been a long wait for you, but you’ve made it! Congratulations!
I will be so happy to complete the information on your line of the Relinquish and Renouce database. Thanks again for reporting your experience here and helping others along their path.
Congratulations, iamquincy! Glad to hear you finally got it.
Your case is really the worst (in fact, to my memory the only bad) one I’ve heard of so far from Toronto. For openers, it looks like Toronto sat on your CLN for five months before signing off on it and forwarding it to Washington for final approval. Most other folks I know, including my wife, had their CLN signed off by Toronto consulate in one week. Then Washington sat on the CLN for another five months before approving it (in my wife’s case it was three months for that stage). The month for the CLN to get from Washington into your hands (October 17 to November 16) is pretty standard and maybe even a bit faster than what I’ve heard in other cases (five weeks for my wife).
What is truly bizarre from my perspective is that you had your interview four months before my wife did, but Toronto signed off on my wife’s CLN nearly three weeks before they signed off on yours.
Either there was something very complex in your 4079 that they needed to spend a huge amount of time checking over, or your file slipped into a crack somewhere and didn’t get discovered for a while. I suspect the latter …
Let’s hope this hasn’t happened to any others who went to Toronto back in November or December 2011 and are still waiting. If there any such folks monitoring this thread and in that situation, it definitely is time to start emailing/phoning/pounding on doors at the consulate to find out what’s going on.
The good news is that you finally got it and it was dated effective your actual relinquishment date.
Congratulations,Quincy !!! I’m delighted for you! It was such a long wait.
I was there 8 May (coincidentally, the day yours was signed), my CLN was signed off on 16 May (8 days). I e-mailed 11 Oct and they replied it hadn’t been approved in DC yet. It was approved 15 Oct (5 months). It was sent fromToronto 2 Nov (3 weeks).
Schubert, I, too think it probably “fell through the cracks.” I think it’s likely that if there was something about the 4079, there’s a good chance they would have contactedQuincy to ask about it. And I think that, unfortunately, humans being only human, sometimes something just falls through the cracks, be it in business or government – bloody annoying when it’s yours, though.
So,Quincy , I’m really happy to hear you finally have it in hand!
@ iamquincy — I am glad! Also envious. Even though it’s not a CLN that I have been waiting for since May (I returned an old, expired green card after I found out about the I-407 form), I am finding the wait for the official “stamp of approval” to be very annoying and truth be told I’m beginning to think the USCIS may have lost it or trashed it. All my attempts to find an e-mail and/or phone contact have failed and my snail-mail inquiries have not been responded to. I really have to hope that Flaherty keeps his word to all Canadian citizens but sometimes I get nightmares about my feet sliding under a bus.
*Thanks everyone for the congratulations. Nice to finally be on the receiving end!
Schubert, I think I had a very straight forward relinquishment since I moved to Canada as a kid and never did anything to act as a US citizen since becoming Canadian. I did notice that there are 2 others here that went in around the same time and haven’t reported receiving their CLNs yet. Maybe the mistake was doing it just a few days before Christmas. Probably got shoved under someones shopping list!
Em, I know the feeling! It certainly was nerve wracking for me when everyone else was getting them and I wasn’t,especially when I had no proof I had relinquished. I kept thinking, “Maybe they lost it!!” Hope your nightmare ends soon.
Great news Iamquincy! Finally! No matter what, you now have it and are FREE!
Hope you’re out celebrating!
*Great news Quincy! Almost a year from start to finish – I can imagine your anxiety. If your date of relinquishment was 1990 that should theoretically mean you shouldn’t have to file 8854 etc. Any plans in that regard?
Congratulations, iamquincy!
@iamquincy, happy to see another one free.
*Thanks, NobleDreamer, Rodgrod, Badger, Hijacked! Couldn’t have done it without all of you!
@Hijacked, I was one of the first that I knew of to go to the consulate to relinquish. At that point, I wasn’t confident that my date of relinquishment would really be backdated and had no idea what would happen behind doors at the consulate. One week before I went in, I started to get nervous that I would need a SSN so I drove down to Niagara and got my SSN. So I ended up doing 5 years of tax returns in January and filed 2011 and 8854 back in April. Now that I’ve learned so much from everyone’s experiences, I wouldn’t have bothered to get the SSN or file anything. In my case, I had a fairly straightforward return, did them all myself with Turbotax and did the 8854 myself. I didn’t owe anything and didn’t spend much to do it and it allowed me to not worry. What’s done is done, but now that I know differently, I would have no problem ignoring the IRS.
*iamquincy, I’m so jealous! Everyday I come home for lunch excited to check my mail box again, but only to find another bill.
I did a quick google on if I have to apply for an ITIN or when, but came up with nothing. Will try again later, unless anyone has any good links on the topic?
Wishing you good luck at your Vancouver US Consulate appointment today, Cir.
I finally received via email my second appointment date for relinquishment at the Vancouver Consulate: June 2013. That’s more than a year since my initial appointment and 9 months from the date I was offered the second appointment. There’s really no provision to dialogue on the appointment date or time though I could reply to the email and ask for something earlier. Its hard to imagine any organization that backed up.